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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:57

Jacfrost · 19/12/2023 17:51

I can't believe the replies on this thread, Jesus.

Yanbu at all OP. I have an autistic 12yo in mainstream and all her teachers are aware that she has ASD. They have her pen portrait which contains things like what part of the classroom is best for her to sit in, that she shouldn't be "cold called" upon to answer questions, etc.

Moving forward I would have a chat with the SENCO to make sure that every teacher is aware of her diagnosis.

I'm sorry that her day didn't go as planned.

Thank you. The head teacher is going to make sure this teacher is aware and yes, a good idea to follow up with the SENCO.

OP posts:
mfbx5sf3 · 19/12/2023 19:58

Why have you bothered posting in AIBU? Everyone someone tries to explain the teachers point of view you are instantly stomping your foot all “No they are wrong/ my poor child”. Find another source for your self validation

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:59

WASZPy · 19/12/2023 17:51

Are you sure the chaos and noise of Christmas dinner would have been a nice introduction to the canteen? I can't think of a more difficult day to go there for the first time.

It was because it was a quiet day as it would only be Y7 in there. She would have LSA support throughout and ear defenders.

OP posts:
BlueMongoose · 19/12/2023 19:59

You need to bear in mind if your child has difficulties that teachers are not always informed by the school about kids' problems, plans or not. You say all the teachers know. How are you so sure of that?

And you also need to bear in mind that teachers are human, too.

I used to be one, though I taught 16+ . The way things are now, I wouldn't consider the job in a school no matter what you paid me. You're expected to be a teacher and get good academic results, which is a tough job in itself and to my mind should be all a teacher should do- plus spend most of your time outside school doing paperwork even in holiday time, be a police officer, a social worker, a psychologist, a counsellor, (all of which should be qualified specialists, not teachers), a leader in out of school activities for no extra pay, take all the crap parents throw at you when an idle kid or just one that is a good kid but not good at the subject isn't achieving, bring their kids up properly to tell the truth, socialise, and behave decently when parents often can't be bothered to, put up with actual violence from kids and parents, and cope with 30 at a time when most parents, with far more sanctions available, can often not cope with just one. And you must, according to modern ideas, never once speak unkindly to any of them. Sod that for a lark. There aren't enough saints with boundless energy and totally unassailable good physical and mental health to go round to staff schools with people who can do all that.

Of course it's reasonable to try to help kids who are struggling, and many teachers are positively heroic in doing so however knackered they are, but this needs to come with a warning- if accommodating kids problems goes too far, it prepares kids very badly for the world outside, and the world of work.

Macaroni46 · 19/12/2023 19:59

@UndertheCedartree

Prinnny
Hardly the teachers fault, YABU to put your child’s meltdown onto them.

Even though the meltdown was because of the unprofessional behaviour of the teacher?

But how do you it's because of the teacher? The seating plan incident happened the day before. The day of the meltdown involved wearing pjs and a Christmas dinner, both situations which would increase anxiety in any child.

BlueMongoose · 19/12/2023 20:02

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:47

I know she snapped at her as my DD told me and the LSA backed it up. I wouldn't have said she snapped at her if she'd actually said what you wrote!

I think I might be better placed than you to understand where her anxiety came from as was Learning support and the headteacher!

Wait- the LSA 'backed it up'? Was this person present? If not, they don't know what happened any better than you do. If they were, WTF were they doing?

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 20:02

PamelaParis · 19/12/2023 17:53

It was hardly a "trauma", come on.
OP I agree with others that you need to work on your DD's resilience.

And how do you know that?

The thing is you can only take things a step at a time. She is working on lots of new things right now and resilience against teachers being unprofessional isn't something anyone thought she would need right now. I honestly don't think resilience should be the answer to rude behaviour.

OP posts:
BewaretheIckabog · 19/12/2023 20:03

Putting an autistic 11 year old in to a new school 3 weeks before Christmas seems a really bad decision.

Obviously do not know whether this was OP’s choice or not.

There’s so much going on, all young kids get giddy towards the end of term especially at Christmas. Routines change, there are additional events and the child will not have built up friendships.

These factors are likely to have more impact on the child than one teacher’s words.

It’s ok to be sad your daughter missed the lunch but pinning the blame on one teacher is ridiculous.

Twixandtinsel · 19/12/2023 20:05

It was unfortunate, yes, but the teacher is trying to manage a class of students who are wound up and exhausted by the end of term. Unfortunately, teachers simply cannot do everything, let alone perfectly, and they have a whole class of other needs too.

Saying the teacher "caused" your DD's meltdown is OTT.

(Saying this as a mom of an autistic DD of the same age).

StolenCookie · 19/12/2023 20:06

OP, please don’t bother responding to people on this thread who are completely ignorant regarding people with autism and their needs. I’m really sorry the teacher snapped at your daughter and humiliated her in front of the class. It would be embarrassing enough for a NT child to contend with. Hopefully the teacher learns from this and treats your daughter with more sensitivity and kindness in the future.

Twixandtinsel · 19/12/2023 20:06

And the teacher is not unprofessional. She is HUMAN.

Jacfrost · 19/12/2023 20:06

Witsend101 · 19/12/2023 19:57

Not the point of this thread but I'd love to know where these 'specialist' schools are that cater for academic ND children who can manage the schoolwork but have difficulties with the environment. I can see numerous posts from teachers and others suggesting that ND children would fare better outside of mainstream so how does one go about finding this provision as it sounds like an ideal solution to this issue ? Where do we apply? There would be a queue for miles for a provision like that.

Ha, that's what I've been thinking. My autistic DD is at a selective grammar school...the academics aren't an issue but the environment can be (thankfully not to a huge extent, she's managing so far with some adjustments)

Where are all these specialist schools that would cater for my DD? I'd like single sex please as she currently has, great exam results, short bus ride away but for all the pupils to be ND 😂

PaperDoIIs · 19/12/2023 20:06

PaperDoIIs · 19/12/2023 19:37

YANBU . It's shit it happened. It's really shit that it will probably happen again.

I won't advise you how to deal with the school as you seem to be on it, you have your daughter's back and say the school staff in general seem supportive.

I would say, don't make this a big deal in front of your daughter (not implying you would,but just in case). It will just be an added layer of anxiety, that time when everything went wrong, she had a meltdown and missed on this big thing. Make it as little as possible, there will be other opportunities, and look at all these events in the new year she could try etc. Use it as a reassuring moment instead, not a lot happened despite the meltdown and everything going wrong. She was ok, she will be again. Everyone understood. Just work with her and preferably with extra support (if any available) to learn from these things , regulate herself as best as she can and try to muddle through. Because sadly, it will happen again and it's devastating for both of you.Flowers

Oh and I don't say this in a "she needs to learn resilience " kinda way. She's showing enormous amounts by showing up every day, being there,learning,trying.

It's in a reminder that it's ok kinda way. It's ok to have a meltdown, it's ok no not be able to cope at times and find things overwhelming and not know what to do or how to react. She was ok after. She's ok now. She will be ok next time and she can always try again.

NorthernGirlie · 19/12/2023 20:07

My Wednesday morning class has 29 students.
4 have autism (1 of whom is non verbal)
1 is partially sighted so I need to remember to enlarge his work and pick it up from my desk after morning registration
1 has severe seizures
1 has a parent on end of life care and needs keeping an eye on
1 has ODD
1 is on the verge of exclusion for behaviour
1 is non binary so I need to remember that
1 us struggling with endo but is shy about asking to nip to the loo so I like to keep an eye on her for signs of pain and nudge her to nip out

Countless have other struggles, especially at this time of year.

I try - I really, really do but sometimes I can't remember what everyone needs all the time. That's just 1 class.

I love my job - the students are a blast and keep me on my toes. There are a couple I'd move in to my house and give them the care they don't get elsewhere if I could...

I'd be gutted if I upset a child and I'd apologise to them (not to their parent, or the head) because i genuinely want all of the children in all of my classes to be comfortable. I do fuck up sometimes though!

BlueMongoose · 19/12/2023 20:08

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 20:02

And how do you know that?

The thing is you can only take things a step at a time. She is working on lots of new things right now and resilience against teachers being unprofessional isn't something anyone thought she would need right now. I honestly don't think resilience should be the answer to rude behaviour.

I don't think the teacher was being 'unprofessional'.
That word is a very serious one, and should be reserved for behaviour well outside what's acceptable of a professional teacher, like hitting or swearing at a pupil, or having pupils cheat in exams. And frankly, this is nothing of the sort, nor anything remotely like it. It's not a word to bandy round for this sort of incident. 'Unprofessional' means the sort of thing someone ought to be facing the possible sack for. You're getting this completely out of proportion- if you used that word for some other professionals in a similar context, they could sue you.

And blaming the teacher for what happened the day after.....
I am beginning to see a pattern here.

What job do you do?

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 20:08

This so could have been me as the teacher. Part through the day at a lesson transition and not being 100% sure of where the gaps were in my seating plan. Flustered I'd ask the child to wait to the side and possibly be attempting to deal with another incident in the meantime, and could sound like I snapped.

Poor teacher probably feels awful, will have had an awkward conversation with the head and now be questioning their career.

waterdusky · 19/12/2023 20:09

I have a DD with autism. I am a teacher and currently have around 45 out of the 302 students I teach a week that have an autism diagnosis. Sometimes I get it wrong. Sometimes I snap because I have ADHD and I get overwhelmed. I don't mean to, but I am human and make mistakes. The chronic underfunding of SEND and the governmental lack of engagement with advice has led to this level of responsibility being put on teachers to an unmanageable level. I cannot learn that many SEND profiles and in my 10 years of teaching across 3 schools, zero hours of training time has been put aside for autism. Any knowledge I have gained has come from trial and error and my own DD. Mistakes are going to continue to happen unless something drastically changes with the SEND provision in state schools. This teacher is human and made a mistake and doesn't mean they are a bad teacher, just that they are fallible. Nothing you will do can change what has happened. You are upset and looking to point the finger, I get that. But if she acknowledged that she snapped to your daughter, this means she's reflecting on her actions and learning from them, so I'd see how things go from here.

Pieceofpurplesky · 19/12/2023 20:10

Witsend101 · 19/12/2023 19:57

Not the point of this thread but I'd love to know where these 'specialist' schools are that cater for academic ND children who can manage the schoolwork but have difficulties with the environment. I can see numerous posts from teachers and others suggesting that ND children would fare better outside of mainstream so how does one go about finding this provision as it sounds like an ideal solution to this issue ? Where do we apply? There would be a queue for miles for a provision like that.

I work in one. Left mainstream a couple of years ago. We could fill the school three times over.

BarelyCoping123 · 19/12/2023 20:10

Bit odd to blame today's meltdown on yesterday's science teacher, OP, i cant see that theyre related.
Also i dont think the festive dinner would have been a good introduction to the canteen at all - this should be done on a different day, with staff, ideally before the full student population piles in.
Try not to get invested in specific events, like a festive dinner - youre setting yourself & DD up for constant disappointments. Just try to be flexible and resilient, and set an example for DD.

Nonplusultra · 19/12/2023 20:10

The teacher needs to develop more resilience and emotional regulation so that she’s not snapping at students.

Shouldn’t be a problem for a neuro typical adult judging by the expectations a lot of posters on this thread have about what disabled children should manage.

PaperDoIIs · 19/12/2023 20:11

BarelyCoping123 · 19/12/2023 20:10

Bit odd to blame today's meltdown on yesterday's science teacher, OP, i cant see that theyre related.
Also i dont think the festive dinner would have been a good introduction to the canteen at all - this should be done on a different day, with staff, ideally before the full student population piles in.
Try not to get invested in specific events, like a festive dinner - youre setting yourself & DD up for constant disappointments. Just try to be flexible and resilient, and set an example for DD.

Then maybe you should do some reading on autism. Or be you know, more flexible and stretch your imagination a bit.

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 20:13

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 17:55

This is nothing to do with the teacher.

If it's the end of December and your daughter is going into the Science lesson for the first time, that's a very unusual situation. It sounds like the teacher may not have been given any warning or much warning that they were getting a new student, and clearly didn't have time to allocate her a seat in advance, so asked her to wait to see where a spare space would be free before allocating her somewhere to sit. You have no idea that she 'snapped'. That's your daughter's perception but may not have been the reality.

If the school is this shit at giving teachers a heads up about new starters, I doubt this teacher was given any information about your daughter's autism, either.

I would speak to the SENCO and find out what's going on regarding internal comms. Why is your daughter only going to this Science class for the first time right at the end of term? Why had the teacher not been briefed? It's not the teacher's fault the school doesn't communicate with their staff.

Please be mindful that this is a VERY long term for teachers, and teaching is a stressful and exhausting job. Sometimes we are snappy because we're human and can't be perfect all the time. Teachers are not going to be able to always ensure your daughter gets spoken to or treated in a way that won't cause her to have a meltdown, and expecting them to is unreasonable. If you choose to place your daughter in a mainstream school, you have to help her prepare for that reality.

Edited

The teacher had 3 weeks notice. As I have said she didn't ask her to wait. I know that she snapped. And how if I apparently have no idea, you a complete stranger apparently know what happened! I'll trust my DD and the school to tell me what happened!!

All other members of staff were briefed. The headteacher told me this teacher has also been briefed. I get the impression she has a reputation for being difficult maybe? Of course they were too professional to tell me anything like that it was just the looks they gave each other. I may be wrong on that, though. And if the teacher really hadn't been briefed and therefore it wasn't her fault she hadn't sorted the room plan - it was even less so my Dd's fault so why snap at her?

OP posts:
Devonshiregal · 19/12/2023 20:15

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 20:02

And how do you know that?

The thing is you can only take things a step at a time. She is working on lots of new things right now and resilience against teachers being unprofessional isn't something anyone thought she would need right now. I honestly don't think resilience should be the answer to rude behaviour.

mainly old school teachers tend to be unprofessional in my experience. Often. They snap. They put kids down. They still say sexist shit like “young ladies don’t behave that way.” They get pissed off when you don’t know something.

unfortunately that’s what you get in schools. I am NOT saying it’s ok. I find it hard to deal with and half the time want to drag my kid out of school and they go to a good one! (By nice I mean mainly nice teachers)

you cannot expect that this kind of thing won’t happen again and regularly. It will.

people are also dickheads in life so it really is a good thing to teach her some good responses and how to deal in situations she’s not comfortable.

I know it’s not easy so please don’t take that as me being flippant but you can’t control other people, you can only “control” your reaction. (Obviously being Nt this is not so easy but you know what I mean) So maybe some kind of ‘script’ she could go to when she feels shouted at?

I'm probably teaching you how to suck eggs (or whatever that phrase is) so sorry.

onanislandfaraway · 19/12/2023 20:15

2023 and people still haven't got a fucking clue what it means to be Autistic. Sorry OP I would give a better reply but I'm so angry reading the ignorant twatish responses you've had on here.

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 20:15

was even less so my Dd's fault so why snap at her?
Because she's HUMAN.