Page 5 | To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

UndertheCedartree · 2023-12-19T17:25:25+00:00

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her. Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her. Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:19

Nothingbuttheglory · 19/12/2023 17:44

Was your DD the only child asked to wait before being seated?

It's secondary school. The other students will all have assigned seats. The teacher was waiting to see where the gaps were.

The teacher does the seating plan so should know where the gaps are. The teacher was aware transitions are difficult for my DD and she would need extra help to settle. Snapping at her, then leaving her not knowing what to do is hardly giving that extra support.

OP posts:

Emeraldrings · 19/12/2023 19:21

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 17:55

This is nothing to do with the teacher.

If it's the end of December and your daughter is going into the Science lesson for the first time, that's a very unusual situation. It sounds like the teacher may not have been given any warning or much warning that they were getting a new student, and clearly didn't have time to allocate her a seat in advance, so asked her to wait to see where a spare space would be free before allocating her somewhere to sit. You have no idea that she 'snapped'. That's your daughter's perception but may not have been the reality.

If the school is this shit at giving teachers a heads up about new starters, I doubt this teacher was given any information about your daughter's autism, either.

I would speak to the SENCO and find out what's going on regarding internal comms. Why is your daughter only going to this Science class for the first time right at the end of term? Why had the teacher not been briefed? It's not the teacher's fault the school doesn't communicate with their staff.

Please be mindful that this is a VERY long term for teachers, and teaching is a stressful and exhausting job. Sometimes we are snappy because we're human and can't be perfect all the time. Teachers are not going to be able to always ensure your daughter gets spoken to or treated in a way that won't cause her to have a meltdown, and expecting them to is unreasonable. If you choose to place your daughter in a mainstream school, you have to help her prepare for that reality.

Edited

It's not unreasonable to expect teachers not to snap at children because they are in a bad mood.
I get tired and stressed working with nursery age children but I have never snapped at them no matter what. Even after saying for the 80th time no running or kind hands.
It's not the teachers fault communication is shit but it's also not OPs DDs fault. You can't just snap at people because you've had a bad day.
I've been where you are OP and ended up moving my DD to a different school where we have never had any issues.

Mariposistaa · 19/12/2023 19:21

In however many years time your kid could be on her way to a job interview and someone will cut her up in the traffic or be rude to her on the bus. If she has a meltdown she will miss the interview and lose the job. No special allowances will be made.

Boomboom22 · 19/12/2023 19:23

Why didn't the lsa sort it if she is there to help your dd? You are being ridiculous about the teacher.

lavenderlou · 19/12/2023 19:24

Mariposistaa · 19/12/2023 19:21

In however many years time your kid could be on her way to a job interview and someone will cut her up in the traffic or be rude to her on the bus. If she has a meltdown she will miss the interview and lose the job. No special allowances will be made.

This is a fear of many parents of autistic DC - that they will find it hard to get a job because the interview situation will be too challenging. Just expecting them to be able to cope with situations like that isn't realistic though autism is a disability and many people with autism simply cannot manage things in the same way as NT people.

AllAroundMyCat · 19/12/2023 19:24

This is kindly said but sometimes ND children will come across tricky situations.
They may not like them, they may react against them but these situations will aways exist.

There are many children/people who will find themselves in awkward situations. Should everyone be aware of all differences at all times?
The obvious answer would be yes but just think of the impact , particularly on those who are struggling themselves.

Candycurrantbun · 19/12/2023 19:25

The teacher shouldn't have snapped at all. We all have shit days at work,most of us are professional enough not to snap at people because we are in a bad mood.

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 19:26

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:19

The teacher does the seating plan so should know where the gaps are. The teacher was aware transitions are difficult for my DD and she would need extra help to settle. Snapping at her, then leaving her not knowing what to do is hardly giving that extra support.

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But the seating plan obviously hadn't been done in advance. There was no seating plan ready with your daughter in it. This is why she had to wait.

Which suggests the teacher didn't know your daughter was joining that morning, or did know, but wasn't given enough notice and/or didn't have enough time to sort out the seating plan in advance. It is very, very odd to have your daughter join a new class midweek at the end of term. So I'm confused as to how this situation even happened - there's been some strange choices from the school there. Surely starting her in the class could have waited until January?

Please try and understand that the teacher's actions aren't malicious here. Teachers are massively overworked during the school day and we receive hundreds of emails about the hundreds of students we teach. Sometimes we drop the ball. She's admitted she did. I don't see that continuing to blame this teacher is helping you, or your daughter.

I might also add that some SEN/support staff in schools are very good at telling parents what they want to hear and saying that they've communicated X, Y, Z to all the teachers, when actually they've done very little to support teachers with specific students. Increasingly SEN/pastoral staff are non-teaching and have no idea what it's like to be juggling a teacher's workload. Their expectations of teachers can be hugely unrealistic, and they pass those hugely unrealistic expectations onto parents, so that when things go wrong, they can point the finger elsewhere.

TinselTitts · 19/12/2023 19:26

The LSA actually said the teacher snapped at your daughter, or did they say something different?

porridgeisbae · 19/12/2023 19:26

@UndertheCedartree The teacher shouldn't have told a child she was 'in a bad mood' or taken it out on a child. So unprofessional.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:26

IglesiasPiggl · 19/12/2023 17:45

Sorry your DD missed the lunch, and I understand you feel sad. On the other side, though,mainstream teachers cannot be expected to understand all the nuances of every SEN in their class, on top their daily subject material. Is your DD supported by the school? Perhaps they need to have more direct communication with her teachers. But you will still get substitutes etc who won't be briefed on all this.

Yes, the school, staff and students have been really supportive. All teachers are aware of her SEN. I understand that not everyone will be as good with autism as others, but she should have at least known this is a new autistic student who struggles with beginnings and endings. When this student then tries really hard by politely asking the teacher where to sit it doesn't feel appropriate for them to snap at her and leave her not knowing what to do. I personally think it is very unprofessional to snap at any pupil but particularly one in these circumstances. The head teacher has told me that she doesn't think it was good enough, either. I trust her as the head of school to know what teachers have been made aware of.

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Mirabai · 19/12/2023 19:26

Kindly OP, this is the reality for an ASD child at a mainstream school. This kind of thing will happen a lot - on a daily basis, so you and DD need to get used to it. Each child is so, so different and some can cope with the hectic bustle of school and some get completely overwhelmed. If you feel that DD will not be able to cope with multiple events of this nature, I would consider specialist school if at all possible.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:27

Prinnny · 19/12/2023 17:46

Hardly the teachers fault, YABU to put your child’s meltdown onto them.

Even though the meltdown was because of the unprofessional behaviour of the teacher?

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Danielle9891 · 19/12/2023 19:29

As you said the teacher had a seating plan then she should have known where the spare seats were. But, if she didn't or it wasn't up to date, I wouldn't expect her to know every spare seat in all her classes. She might have 4/5 different classes a day. (My old teachers frequently switched us around if we were talking too much).

It's crap about her Christmas dinner as well but there might have been too much going on and it would have been louder than normal. All the other kids would have been excited about Christmas and the fact they could wear their PJ's. So it probably wasn't the best day for her to experience the dinner hall. (My niece has ADHD and struggles with the canteen when it's busy or loud) but saying that a staff member could have gone and grabbed her one.

CloudPop · 19/12/2023 19:30

I can't believe the replies on here. Any new student would feel uncomfortable being told to stand at the front until everyone else sat down. The teacher had the seating plan, why didn't she direct your daughter? I'm truly staggered that so many people think your daughter should be treated like this

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:30

Pollyannamex · 19/12/2023 17:48

YABU it’s not the teachers fault

My AIBU was AIBU to feel sad my DC missed Christmas dinner not AIBU to think the teacher caused my Dd's meltdown because I already know the answer to that.

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Smerpsmorp · 19/12/2023 19:30

Platypuslover · 19/12/2023 18:40

And most have not read this properly. The teacher didn’t ask nicely or in a way suitable for any child but snapped at the child.

it’s also absolutely any teacher’s responsibility to know if a new child being added to their class has any sen needs!

it is furthermore the school’s responsibility to inform the teachers of any sen children and how to approach them.

Umm - my class lists got changed last week with no notice. They had to go to their previous teacher to ask for their folder. I had to bring in another table from another class. As it went from 30-32 which I don’t have the space for.

if this is mainstream state school, the teacher was at the end of their tether - probably juggling about 5 different scenarios at one time. The teacher has apologised, and likely apologised when it happened. Not sure you can hold them to account any more than that. No it shouldn’t happen, teachers make mistakes.

if your child doesn’t have a TA, then frankly there’s not much hope of adapting to this level of autism. No she shouldn’t have snapped but different teachers have different tones, and your DDs meltdown was not specifically related to this particular incident and it’s not feasible to blame the teacher or anyone really, especially once they’ve apologised. They’ve learnt how to better deal with your daughter, and it will improve moving forwards (hopefully).

missing Christmas dinner in secondary school is really not that bad - it’s usually vile anyway………!!!!

TinselTitts · 19/12/2023 19:31

Is there any chance going to school in her pyjamas could've added to it all?

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 19:31

Emeraldrings · 19/12/2023 19:21

It's not unreasonable to expect teachers not to snap at children because they are in a bad mood.
I get tired and stressed working with nursery age children but I have never snapped at them no matter what. Even after saying for the 80th time no running or kind hands.
It's not the teachers fault communication is shit but it's also not OPs DDs fault. You can't just snap at people because you've had a bad day.
I've been where you are OP and ended up moving my DD to a different school where we have never had any issues.

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Teaching nursery aged children is a VERY different ballgame to teaching teenagers.

Try dealing with a class of 30 16 year olds giving you aggro, swearing at you, calling you a c* and telling you to fuck off. Sometimes they throw things around the room at each other, or start beating each other up. Sometimes they deliberately push you to breaking point because some teenagers can be nasty and malicious and enjoy breaking a teacher they don't like. Thankfully I've not experienced any of that behaviour, but I've got many colleagues who have, on a daily basis.

Dealing with that kind of behaviour is not quite the same as having to remind cute little toddlers to stop running around the room. Which is why sometimes those of us teaching teenagers all day, every day, might occasionally get a bit snappy. I think we can be forgiven for it.

Mirabai · 19/12/2023 19:32

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:26

Yes, the school, staff and students have been really supportive. All teachers are aware of her SEN. I understand that not everyone will be as good with autism as others, but she should have at least known this is a new autistic student who struggles with beginnings and endings. When this student then tries really hard by politely asking the teacher where to sit it doesn't feel appropriate for them to snap at her and leave her not knowing what to do. I personally think it is very unprofessional to snap at any pupil but particularly one in these circumstances. The head teacher has told me that she doesn't think it was good enough, either. I trust her as the head of school to know what teachers have been made aware of.

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To be fair she could easily have another 5 SEN kids in the class who struggle with x and y, then kids with highly problematic home lives, and a fair number for whom English is not their first language and may be a refugee. That’s what a teacher is walking into the classroom with, with very little specific SEN training and no prior acquaintance with your child.

If you think now you’ve spoken to head this won’t happen again - it will happen all the time. I think you need to manage your expectations of what mainstream school will be like.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:32

StupidStunts · 19/12/2023 17:48

Very unsympathetic replies. OP - I get it, totally see how meltdown was caused by trauma of the science seat incident. School should have provided her with support to get settled. Hopefully lesson learned and they will do so next time (if you point it out to them). It's awful watching you nd child miss out on things that nt kids do without a blink. I'm really sorry.

Every other teacher has been brilliant, it was just a shame this one happened the day before Christmas dinner day.

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gamerchick · 19/12/2023 19:33

Theyve all come crawling out on this thread haven't they?

The teacher will have to help the bairn feel safe again in their lesson or the bairn won't and it'll just build up again. The school need to sort it OP.

LIZS · 19/12/2023 19:33

"Snapped" or just put on the spot and had to pause to think? Was it really that long before she was seated or just felt that to your dc?

FaiIureToLunch · 19/12/2023 19:34

My son is autistic and you are doing your daughter no favours at all by treating her like a victim. I’d be more bothered about her reaction than missing her dinner

DiddyHeck · 19/12/2023 19:34

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:30

My AIBU was AIBU to feel sad my DC missed Christmas dinner not AIBU to think the teacher caused my Dd's meltdown because I already know the answer to that.

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It wasn't really though was it?

I mean no-one would be reasonable or unreasonable to feel sad at that. Why would you need to ask the opinions of strangers about a feeling?

Clearly you wanted to get the whole thing off your chest, which is fair enough but now you're sounding a bit disingenuous.