Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
GodDammitCecil · 19/12/2023 18:52

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 18:41

Yes, it was. And honestly, I don't think a teacher being rude to her is a good way to develop resilience and neither do the school. She's had far too many things happen to her already that she's had to build resilience against.

Show quote history

It’s not good that this happened.

The teacher made a mistake. She is human.

Again, do you feel better about this situation now that you’ve posted on MN about it?

I just don’t understand why people bring things like this to MN. It’s only guaranteed to make you feel much worse.

lavenderlou · 19/12/2023 18:53

OP, best to stick to the SEN board to discuss issues like this. Most posters in AIBU do not understand why what seems like no big deal to a NT child is a huge deal to a child with autism. I am a teacher and a parent of autistic children. Tone of voice can be a huge deal to children with autism. I would make sure the school put into her plan that teachers need to be aware of how they use their tone of voice around her. It's not a criticism of the teacher, it's just making them aware that this SEN student needs an adjustment in how they are spoken to compared to a NT student.

lavenderlou · 19/12/2023 18:58

Also, I would add that it while I'm all too familiar with the fact that schools are overwhelmed with students with additional needs, it is part of your job as a teacher to make sure you know when a child has extra needs and requires adjustments. My own DC requires very minor adjustments (things like seating position) to be able to access lessons. The number of teachers who remain unaware of this despite frequent reminders from the SENCO is very frustrating.

BoredofBlonde · 19/12/2023 18:59

I take it that it upset your daughter so much that she was talking about it a lot last night? What did you do to de-escalate her fears about the teacher?

Did she have a melt-down at the time too?

It just seems unusual if your daughter kept it all in until the drive to school when she was looking forward to something.

Mumsanetta · 19/12/2023 19:01

GodDammitCecil · 19/12/2023 18:52

It’s not good that this happened.

The teacher made a mistake. She is human.

Again, do you feel better about this situation now that you’ve posted on MN about it?

I just don’t understand why people bring things like this to MN. It’s only guaranteed to make you feel much worse.

Show quote history

How do you feel now that you’ve posted such an unhelpful, antagonistic response on MN? Do you feel better?

CunkEverywhereOnEverything · 19/12/2023 19:02

I’m sorry this happened but it doesn’t sound like it was really the teacher’s fault- or your daughter’s- at all but culmination of things: a probably offhand maybe too sharp way of speaking to your daughter, your daughter taking it far
more to heart (due to her autism) than anyone might expect her to and reacting to that and then general end of term exhaustion. Both of mine are like this right now and both have ASD. It’s knackering at the best of times but this time of year is worse.

Hopefully tomorrow is a better day!

Holdingontilljuly · 19/12/2023 19:03

In a class of 28/30 there is a high likelihood of 4/5 being on SEN register, and a class teacher maybe lucky to have in-class support for that session. We then have the other 25 coming into the lesson over a 5 minute period in various moods/attitudes.

The class teacher still has sorting from the last lesson as well as getting the next lot underway.

so nothing is perfect but that is the way it is

MotherofWhippets81 · 19/12/2023 19:03

Jacfrost · 19/12/2023 18:00

OP you might be better off asking MNHQ to move this to the SN board. I'm disgusted by the replies on here.

Me too.

The word 'resilience' being banded about. So fucking ableist.

Soontobe60 · 19/12/2023 19:04

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:54

No, she didn't do that. As I explained the teacher snapped at her she didn't just kindly say she didn't know and she didn't tell her to stand at the front while she figured it out. The teacher actually said she was snapping because she was in a bad mood so she said it herself!

Show quote history

Really?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:04

ginasevern · 19/12/2023 17:38

Was your DD the only child asked to wait before being seated? Either way, I'm sorry she missed the Christmas dinner and I can understand your hurt no matter what the rights and wrongs of it.

Noone was asked to wait. The other girls knew where their set place was, it was just my DD didn't know as she'd not had that teacher before. She was just left standing there until the LSA stepped in. The teacher has a seating plan so should know where she should sit. The teacher also knows DD needs extra support at the beginning and end of a class.

OP posts:
PastelHouses · 19/12/2023 19:06

This reply has been deleted

This is a goady troll so we've removed their posts.

Alargeoneplease89 · 19/12/2023 19:06

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 18:00

All teachers have been made aware. She didn't ask her anything. All other teachers have had a plan so DD is seated straight away. I know she snapped because my DD told me backed up by the LSA

Show quote history

Tbh you keep changing your mind, one minute you say the teacher admitted snapping, then the head teacher agreed then the LSA.

In the end of the day, we are all human and can't remember every child's needs especially if it's mainstream school.

Good news is there is another next year, maybe stop focusing so much on it otherwise your DD will.

Gingerbee · 19/12/2023 19:07

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 18:12

@Witsend101 I have a huge amount of empathy for the child. I know how overwhelming your average school is for an ND child and as a teacher I do my best every day to ensure they feel safe and supported.

What I don't appreciate is the mother seeking to blame her child's teacher for 'causing' a meltdown, when that is unfair and unnecessary.

Mainstream teachers get very little (if any) specific training on how to support autistic children. We get sent very long plans with recommendations and so on for each child on the SEN register, but in state schools, where you might have 6 or 7 per class on the register (and probably 7 classes), that's a huge amount of information to retain and act on every day. Expecting teachers in mainstream education to deliver SEN specific personalised teaching is therefore unrealistic. Yes, the teacher in this scenario snapped and has admitted they were in a bad mood. But they clearly didn't know that asking the OP's DD to wait while they worked out where she could sit would be a problem for a ND child. That's not the teacher's fault. It's the school's fault for not providing adequate training and support to the OP's daughter's teachers.

Unfortunately the push to get more children with high needs into mainstream education has not been supported with any additional budget for teacher training. Increasingly mainstream classroom teachers are being expected to deliver hugely differentiated, specialised support to children with severe SEN while also teaching the rest of the class, with no TAs and no training. It's not fair on anyone, and being berated by parents for making innocent mistakes certainly doesn't help.

As a mother of an Autistic child and an ex-teacher this is so true.
The last week of term is chaotic for students and teachers. As ex SenCo in several large Secondary schools it is very difficult for subject teachers to know verbatim each SEND plan. Or the words or phrases that trigger each student.
I really emphasis with you and your DD.
I do question the timing of a new start in the last week or two of term.
Very disorienting as it does not give a true reflection of the school and the routines

Tacotortoise · 19/12/2023 19:09

Ladyj84 · 19/12/2023 18:08

Eh I'm really sorry but I come from an autistic family and the teacher did absolutely nothing wrong and stress can affect the dinner tantrum nothing to do with the teacher

Coming from an autistic family has obviously taught you Jack shit very little about autism.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:10

Covidiokilledtheradiostar · 19/12/2023 17:40

@PastelHouses it clearly is relevant the poor girl might struggle with unfamiliar environments and transitions, very common with autistic children. New environments can be very difficult for them to navigate especially in a new classroom and teacher situation. Might be an easy request for a Nt child but for a child with SEN and Autism it’s not as simple. Maybe you should try having some sympathy for others but maybe also your the type of person yah thinks children with Sen should just get on with it or be in speical homes out of sight and mind

Thank you that explains it very well. This is all in Dd's plan so all the teachers know. Unfortunately, like many SEN DC she needs support to access her education. But she's a wonderful little girl who can give a lot back.

OP posts:
CHRIS003 · 19/12/2023 19:11

Soontobe60 · 19/12/2023 17:50

Not at all. How does the OP know that the teacher ‘snapped’ at her DD? She could have just said - ‘hang on a minute, I need to see where all the other children sit before I can find you a place’ but obviously with her additional needs the OPs DD found this to be highly upsetting.
Id say the most likely cause of the girl’s anxiety was having to go to school in pyjamas and get of Christmas dinner and all that entails, along with being in a new school.

Show quote history

I picked up on the pyjamas thing too - my adult son has ASD -diagnosed when he was 6 - he hated things like world book day where they had to dress up as book characters or non uniform day and he certainly would not have wanted to go to school in pyjamas ! Also christmas dinner in a large noisy room eating together with 100 other kids with all the tinsel and decorations would have been sensory overload for him at that age. He went for the food and coped ok but he certainly wouldn't have wanted to sit in his pyjamas that would have been his idea of hell.
My daughter who is NT was also the same about pyjamas day !! Pyjamas were for home and bedtime as far as she was concerned. This girl might have appeared to be looking forward to it as she was trying to fit in - but her anxiety became too much - may be deflected it to the teacher incident instead. Because she was getting pressure to go to school in pj's because other kids were doing it. My son used to do this, blame another incident rather than tell me about the thing that was really upsetting him ?

WombatChocolate · 19/12/2023 19:11

Lots of things happen which shouldn’t and aren’t ideal.

As had been said upthread, teachers might receive 70 messages a week abiut different children - related to ignoring uniform policy for them, who they can or can’t sit with, pastoral info to take into account, updates to SEN info and adjustments. Some comes with zero notice or after the child has already joined a class.

As I said upthread, what do you want to do about this? Do you want to vent here and then move on? Do you want to discuss with school what happened today and how to move forward in future (without apportioning blame) or are you wanting to make a complaint?

Today wasn’t ideal. What next? And where are you on understanding that things won’t be 100% ideal given the funding issues in schools and how over-stretched all resources are? And where are on you on how you relate to the school and deal with these disappointments? Are you in regular contact and are you working with them in a supportive way to help things move in the right direction? Can you judge when things are serious and need a complaint and when things are disappointing and not ideal and need a conversation about things to help DD which dont involve a complaint?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:11

Nothingbuttheglory · 19/12/2023 17:42

@Covidiokilledtheradiostar Can I ask what you think the teacher should have done differently?

It's not that unusual for subject teachers to have literally no notice, or just an email mid-morning, of a new starter.

She started 3 weeks ago, all teachers are aware.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:13

Nothingbuttheglory · 19/12/2023 17:42

@Covidiokilledtheradiostar Can I ask what you think the teacher should have done differently?

It's not that unusual for subject teachers to have literally no notice, or just an email mid-morning, of a new starter.

And what she should have done differently? Well, like all the other teachers she should have been welcoming and polite and got DD seated quickly as per the seating plan she should have done.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 19/12/2023 19:13

The teacher is only human and they don't handle things perfectly all the time or get it right.

No it isn't teachers fault she missed Christmas Dinner. These things will happen in a mainstream high school. Christmas week is always extra stressful for pupils and teachers.
You said there's a plan. If she becomes disregulated again due an incident like this what's the back up? Mine would use their timeout card and take themselves to learning support. Leaning support would get them regulated then have a quick chat on phone with teacher to resolve the issue - so something like I'm going to being x child down, could u make sure they have a set place to sit please.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:15

Xmastime2023 · 19/12/2023 17:43

Surely she’s had 11 years of missing out on things? Mine has missed out on much ‘bigger’ things because he wouldn’t have been able to cope, that’s part and parcel of ASD parenting.

Yes, she has which is why it's such a big deal when they are able to take part in something. The Learning support staff have worked really hard on it as have I. She was really looking forward to it. Just because she has autism does that mean we shouldn't even try to help her access things?

OP posts:
evenbarnyardanimals · 19/12/2023 19:16

Teachers can be ND too. Compassion can be a two way thing.

CatMadam · 19/12/2023 19:17

Deeply unpleasant but unfortunately not surprising replies from people who clearly have no understanding of or empathy for SEN children. I was an undiagnosed autistic child and experienced many teachers snapping at me like this, it made my life at school much harder than it needed to be.

waterrat · 19/12/2023 19:18

Wow some ignorant replies here. God how depressing this shit talk about resilience. Autism is a disability and this child was not properly supported and then missed an important activity

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 19:19

@UndertheCedartree

I'm not sure what you want from this thread.

Lots of us with professional experience are explaining the challenges within the school environment and offering advice and suggestions to help you better understand the reality of how things work and so better manage things with the school for your daughter's sake going forward.

You keep coming back to reiterate this is the teacher's fault and insisting there's nothing more to it than that.

If you want to believe that, then fine. But it won't help your daughter in the long term for you to ignore the reality of what teachers in her school will be facing on a day to day basis. Not to mention the fact that in many schools, cover teachers and supply teachers will be doing the rounds on a daily basis due to staff absence and they certainly won't have a clue about your daughter when covering her class.

You can either ignore this reality, or accept it, and work with the school and your daughter on how to deal with it. Insisting that all teachers should know how to deal with your daughter all the time always will get you nowhere, because that expectation is wholly unrealistic for the many reasons I and other posters have explained.