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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
Sherrystrull · 21/12/2023 14:40

I know that LSAs are very busy. Teachers are also very busy dealing with classes of 30+. That's why LSAs need to be with the children who they are supporting so the teacher can actually teach.

Soontobe60 · 21/12/2023 15:01

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 19:15

Yes, she has which is why it's such a big deal when they are able to take part in something. The Learning support staff have worked really hard on it as have I. She was really looking forward to it. Just because she has autism does that mean we shouldn't even try to help her access things?

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Actually it sounds like the LSA wasn’t doing their job, which is to support all learners. I would have expected the LSA to have been at the door to greet your DD and show her to her seat. Not gossiping about a teacher!

Soontobe60 · 21/12/2023 15:11

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 13:27

This is a huge deal for many autistic children. Mine tend to think they are being told off, and it causes issues such as meltdown, not sleeping, school avoidance, panic.

Ideally, whole class teaching should be neuro-inclusive. There are no disadvantages to neurotypical children and it ensures that undiagnosed neurodivergent children aren’t traumatised.

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I’d be interested to know what that would look like in a mainstream school,

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/12/2023 15:28

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 19:17

I find this idea you have of an lsa supporting multiple children at secondary quite strange. As a secondary teacher the only lsa we have are 1-1 and even then they don't come to all classes. There are no class ta's in secondary so the lsa only responsibility is your dd.

And the only thing the teacher said was I don't know. She didn't know. She then even apologised, by saying she was in a bad mood. You don't have to say every word out loud to make your meaning clear and that was clearly an explanation.

Regarding the look, I think its more likely that was about you and your daughter than about the science teacher. Going by this thread you are like a dog with a bone about perceived manners. Still very unclear what is wrong with saying you don't know and then placing when everyone is seated, seems eminently reasonable.

Well, perhaps all high schools don't work exactly the same? At my Dd's school they have an excellent Learning support centre. Her class always has a LSA in their class.

The teacher didn't just politely say she didn't know, she snapped at my DD. That's a big difference. She didn't apologise, either.

In what way could it have been about me and my DD? We weren't even involved in the conversation. I had made no comment on the issue atall. The look came about when the member of staff was mentioned by the LSA to the Head.

And I agree with you there would have been nothing unreasonable about your scenario but that wasn't what happened.

And ultimately maybe NT people just fi

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/12/2023 15:28

find it hard to understand the difference.

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cardibach · 21/12/2023 15:31

You just keep saying she hasn’t apologised and haven’t responded to me pointing out that you seem to have missed/misunderstood the bit where she did…

CHRIS003 · 21/12/2023 17:20

UndertheCedartree · 21/12/2023 15:28

find it hard to understand the difference.

Obviously it's not fine to be like this with any child - but autistic children are more
Likely to find a situation like this difficult because they have difficulty reading moods and situations-
In this situation NT child - miss ( teachers name ) looks like she is right mood so I am either going to keep my head down - sit down and be quiet or depending on the child - I am going to go out if my way to wind her up even further to make my day more interesting.
Autistic child - can't remember where I need to sit - Normal routine is to ask- going to ask so I don't get in to trouble - can't read teachers mood wonders why I have been shouted out - spells melt down. Not now but when I get home where I feel safe !
This is what you have to learn as a parent and explain to your daughter that with
The best will in the world unfortunately life is not going to run exactly how she would like it to - we would like to live in a world nobody ever got annoyed or upset but unfortunately you have to enable your autistic child to function in the real world so re assure that you will speak to the Learning support team and you will do your best to make sure that teachers are aware of her extra needs but also tell her that sometimes situations will occur and that she should come to you or her lsa and if it looks like their is a pattern with a particular teacher then you can take it further but honestly I think you should may be start the new term afresh in Jan and draw a line under this and try and not blow it out of proportion for your daughter

winewolfhowls · 21/12/2023 18:16

Not sure if this point has been made yet but sounds to me like the lsa could have been a little more proactive in this situation, perhaps reassured your daughter that she would find out the seat or suggest a time out and return to a settled room? A good LSA is like gold dust and they buffer the school experience for students and and proactive at preventing situations from arising. They should be paid at least double the amount they are.I appreciate your DD is new so hasn't got a relationship with lsa yet but I hope it reassures you to hear how much help they can be.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:31

Mommywomb · 20/12/2023 20:54

I am sorry that this happened with your DD! Meltdown could be due to snapping off, new school, Pajama day plus the dinner etc all put together as well- i hope this never happens again as all teachers have been made aware of!

BUT

this is YABU or YANBU thread and from you replies you’re quite sure of yourself that you are right to blame the teacher so not sure why start this thread tbh

Yes, but my AIBU was AIBU to feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner? So I'm interested to know different views on that. I wasn't asking AIBU about the teacher.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:38

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 20:58

Ta or lsa are NOT whole class at secondary
There is no other child for the lsa to deal with, op has made this up in her mind in her vendetta against the teacher who by her own words said
I don't know.

That is her heinous crime
Really the lsa is at fault, all her focus should be on the dd.

I really don't know where op is getting this class ta idea from in yr7.

You clearly don't have a clue. This is precisely why I chose this school because of the good Learning support. Presumably your schools' isn't as good. Academies can run as they like. My DD is in a class that always has an LSA in.

Are you serious the LSA would have noone else to deal with? You think my DD is the sole DC in her class in need of support? So many teachers have commented about the numerous Dc in a class that need some type of support. Are you really saying at your school you would have a whole class with only one child needing support??

What vendetta? Such a vendetta I've not even said a word about it to the school! Why should all the focus be on my DD when other DC need support too?

I really don't know where you're getting the idea all schools are the same!

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:43

Sherrystrull · 20/12/2023 21:22

Op, when were you a teacher? Schools and expectations for teachers have increasingly massively in the last 5 years. Things are happening I could never have imagined.

Getting on for 10 years ago! Didn't realise it was that long ago til I really thought!

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:47

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 20/12/2023 21:26

Many of us parents are or used to be teachers

What percentage of parents do you think have been teachers?!

I don't know what kind of teaching you did, whether you were full time etc, but the ft teachers I know have far more work than they can do in a day, every day. Like I say, we try to be prepared, but I literally do not have time to 'review my classes and students' before every lesson.

No idea but teachers always speak as if being a parent and a teacher is mutually exclusive!

Yes, I was full time. What I was trying to say was I had to do those things to be able to handle my day. When you are autistic you often have to put in extra work just to be at the same level as the NT.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:51

Mojolostforever · 20/12/2023 21:32

For me I've always had to be super organised and prepared which I think helps being a teacher (and a nurse.) I would make sure I reviewed my classes and students beforehand. I would have everything I needed available. And I treated others as I would wish to be treated at all times. These things would all help me enormously.

If you were so super organized and everything was going well for you in teaching, then why did you leave? ( I can think of many reasons).

And as a former teacher, you ought to have a good idea of the stresses of the job and more understanding of teachers who don't spend all day being mild mannered, kind and polite (which is not the best approach for keeping order in a classroom).
I think you need to put this behind you and move on.

I said I've always had to be super organised not that everything was always going well!

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I was able to keep order.

I have put it behind me.

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Mommywomb · 22/12/2023 00:55

@UndertheCedartree Fair enough! Yes you are not being unreasonable at all to feel sad that the DD missed the Christmas Dinner. :( these are rare occasions for the whole class to enjoy. Sorry she has to miss it! I hope next year or any upcoming event, is better! Best of luck!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:56

adomizo · 20/12/2023 22:20

I'm unclear what you want from this thread. Many responses are in agreement that the teacher cannot consider everyone's needs all the time and that she misjudged this. Yes its upset your DD. But going to a mainstream secondary school is going to have ups and downs. NT children also have to navigate teachers who occasionally are snappy and times when things don't go their way. How can you move on from this ?

I already have. There wasn't much to move on from tbh. If you're talking about the teacher?

The actual issue of feeling so sad for my DD is harder to deal with.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 00:57

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 22:21

Hopefully op has realised the lsa is the one at fault and that there are no class ta's.

Why would I realise something that's not true?

I've explained her class always has an LSA. Not sure how clearer I can put it really?

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:06

Happilyobtuse · 20/12/2023 22:32

Yes, but you seem hell bent on going on and on about how it is the teachers fault that your child missed out on Christmas dinner. Isn’t it more due to her inability to handle an impolite or less than perfect response from another human being?! All children whether ND or not sometimes struggle with their emotions towards situations. I can understand if the teacher yelled at her in public or something but this was rather a terse comment by the teacher. A mistake by the teacher, but not one to make such a big deal about. My point is, this will keep happening if not at school then when she goes to the store or is walking on the street. How will she manage in those instances when people say or do things she doesn’t like?! Sorry but I can’t understand how you expect everyone who comes into contact with her to know she has these triggers or melt downs to simple situations. I agree no one likes to be talked to rudely, but it does happen all the time! Today at the supermarket I heard a person mumbling and being generally rude as an older man ahead of us was doing everything super slow. It was terrible manners. Luckily he seemed to have a hearing aid and I hoped for his sake he hadn’t heard.

I think as a parent you need to have more realistic expectations from other people. No one is perfect, and neither are you.

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You don't seem to realise that a 'terse comment' to a autistic child is the equivalent of you shouting at them. How will she cope? Probably in the same way she coped when it happened at school.

I can't say that people are rude to me all the time. I think it is quite rare. But I imagine if you are the type of person that doesn't think it matters to be polite you probably get people's backs up and then they are rude back!

It's such a bad example to be rude to your pupils!

That doesn't mean I don't expect people to not always be polite and friendly at school. And obviously as I've detailed I've let my DD know that too.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:08

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 22:33

Saying I don't know is perfectly fine. The teacher did not snap and really there was no other possible answer or way to deal with the situation.
Her lsa was not doing her role it appears.

How do you know the teacher didn't snap?😂 The people who were there say she snapped but you know better?! ,😂 I find this kind of response hilarious.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:15

adviceneeded1990 · 20/12/2023 22:41

@UndertheCedartree you said in a previous post that “I was just there with my DD when the LSA made the comment to the headteacher.”

The LSA shouldn’t be commenting on her opinion of the teachers tone/behaviour in front of you or your DD. Highly unprofessional behaviour. And the HT should be shutting that down ASAP and having that discussion privately.

Of course the teacher should be kind to all children but “snapping” is very vague, what one person hears as a snappish tone another person might be totally fine with. I’ve had kids saying staff in my school are shouting when others think their voices are barely raised. Everyone hears things differently and if I was the teacher and my HT based an opinion of my tone on the word of one interpretation, I would 100% raise a concern with my union.

It was the Head who asked the LSA just responded. It was all over quickly and done quite discretely, they probably weren't aware I heard/saw what happened. I'm just very observant due to my autism.

Well, yes, but more than one person agreed. It wasn't one interpretation was it? And the point is if a certain tone is difficult for a certain DC it is fine to raise it. I'd want to know, wouldn't you? You'd raise a concern with your union if you were given some information about autistic DC or a particular DC?? I find that really strange. I'm glad that other teachers said they'd want to know.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:18

wandawaves · 20/12/2023 23:10

All the comments about teachers being only human and are allowed to snap sometimes... I disagree. I'm a nurse who works with the elderly. They have behaviours that are incessant, intrusive, threatening, highly highly irritating... but I would never and have never snapped at them. They are vulnerable people. I am a professional person. You have to remain calm and patient 100% of the time. If a nurse 'snaps' at a resident, this can be reported as elderly abuse, and has indeed happened and has to be reported and investigated. It is a huge deal.

I absolutely have snapped in my personal life at my kids. But in my professional life with the elderly, never.

Completely agree

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:25

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 21/12/2023 08:25

Yes, it's super human to expect politeness 100% of the time. Everyone has an off day, or even an off moment. That's normal. She apologised. You have to help your daughter realise that, much as it's hurtful, it was not a reflection on how the teacher feels about her in general. I get that it's hard and this has affected her badly, but things like this can and will happen. You both need coping strategies.

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She didn't apologise!

And yes, she knows that. She has lots of coping strategies, I agree they are needed.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:31

cardibach · 21/12/2023 12:00

How do you know t( head spoke to the teacher? You said the only interaction you’ve had with the head is the coincidental meeting in reception when your DD was having a meltdown and he helped.
also you keep saying the teacher didn’t apologise, yet you say she ‘admitted’ it to the class - ie she said she’d snapped because she was in a bit of a bad mood. The only reason for her saying this would be as part of an apology, like ‘sorry if I'm a bit short, I’m having a bad day’. As I’ve said before, I’ll often do that if I know I’m having a bad day even if I don’t think I have snapped in case I inadvertently have a ‘tone’ or irritated body/facial language.

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I didn't say that was my only interaction with the head. I said quite clearly I spoke to the head later. But what I did say was I did not complain about the teacher, nor was I in a meeting with the Head about the teacher.

I've not heard anything about an apology. DD didn't hear an apology. There are many ways you could say you were in a bad mood that don't involve an apology.

That's great you do that but not everyone is the same!

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:38

Sherrystrull · 21/12/2023 14:40

I know that LSAs are very busy. Teachers are also very busy dealing with classes of 30+. That's why LSAs need to be with the children who they are supporting so the teacher can actually teach.

The LSA is supporting a number of DC not just one.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:41

Soontobe60 · 21/12/2023 15:01

Actually it sounds like the LSA wasn’t doing their job, which is to support all learners. I would have expected the LSA to have been at the door to greet your DD and show her to her seat. Not gossiping about a teacher!

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What about the other DC that need support? How could she show her to her seat if the teacher who is meant to decide these things doesn't know! I've said nothing about her gossiping about a teacher?? I said she would have been helping another DC.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 22/12/2023 01:43

You think she was gossiping about a teacher with one of the other students rather than supporting them? How odd!

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