Page 25 | To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

UndertheCedartree · 2023-12-19T17:25:25+00:00

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her. Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her. Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 19:47

ShittingPeugeot · 20/12/2023 12:43

Out of curiosity what happens then when the class is getting spoken to as a whole, say the whole class is getting told of for collectively being disruptive, does that now not happen due to one or two autistic people in the class?

I'm genuinely curious before anyone slates me!

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I would speak to the DC separately in that situation. Can't speak for all teachers/schools. Sometimes DD would come out of her class at Primary if an activity wasn't suitable for her. I would imagine it would be the same at secondary and she'd go up to the Learning Support centre.

OP posts:

SkinOffNose · 20/12/2023 20:11

Sherrystrull · 20/12/2023 19:10

Why wasn't the LSA with your DC? They were supporting a different child you assume. They should have told that child to wait and supported your dc so the teacher could teach the class. That's the job of the LSA.

What did the teacher actually say?

Read the thread. OP has answered these kind of questions many times now.

Sherrystrull · 20/12/2023 20:20

The op said she assumed the LSA was with another child. Thats not a fact.

She said the teacher snapped. What words were said other than asking her to stand to the side and wait a minute.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 20:27

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 19:41

Yes and despite my posts saying I used to be a teacher, I know what it's like and that we all have off days. And yes, I have snapped at my partner and my DC. We just have to agree to disagree. It's ok to not agree about everything!

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You are making contradictory statements now.

Mommywomb · 20/12/2023 20:54

I am sorry that this happened with your DD! Meltdown could be due to snapping off, new school, Pajama day plus the dinner etc all put together as well- i hope this never happens again as all teachers have been made aware of!

BUT

this is YABU or YANBU thread and from you replies you’re quite sure of yourself that you are right to blame the teacher so not sure why start this thread tbh

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 20:58

Ta or lsa are NOT whole class at secondary
There is no other child for the lsa to deal with, op has made this up in her mind in her vendetta against the teacher who by her own words said
I don't know.

That is her heinous crime
Really the lsa is at fault, all her focus should be on the dd.

I really don't know where op is getting this class ta idea from in yr7.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 20:58

Teder · 20/12/2023 12:51

Some people really lack the ability to be empathetic. Yes, this is AIBU but it’s clear
the OP is upset and frustrated that her daughter had a bad day. Perhaps she does not have anyone in real life and wanted to share her human emotions. Lots of people on here are saying the teacher is only human and was probably tired and stressed, so snapped. That’s fair. It’s equally fair that the OP is feeling emotional.

Thank you, yes you summed it up.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:05

randomstress · 20/12/2023 13:20

I been reading through the thread and feeling sorry for both dd and the teacher.

I was wondering if OP was ND herself as her thinking is very rigid and also very black and white.
Most of life is grey, messy and full of mistakes.

Try to support your dd to accept that people make mistakes, to show grace and keep on advocating for yourself and others. This may be the first mistake but it won't be the last.

Yes, I'm autistic, how did you guess?😂

Yes, thank you, I have tried to do that.

Re: me being rigid. I was determined to get my DD into this school as I knew it was the only one locally that could meet her needs. People told me I'd never win, she'd be fine at the school she got offered etc. But I stuck to my guns rigidly! And I won! I got her into a school that can meet her needs! Of course there will be ups and downs but there'll be a hell of a lot more ups here than at the school that she got offered who wouldn't even consider putting reasonable adjustments in place and has a severe bullying problem as well as lots of disruption.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:10

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 13:36

@ntmdino I would be surprised if the child was 'specifically and uniquely disadvantaged' deliberately though. We really do expect teachers to be super human sometimes.

It seems I'm in the minority but I just don't see being polite as a super human thing. Has it always been this way? I thought most people thought manners were important?

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:18

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 20/12/2023 13:39

Teachers do try to deal with the umpteen different, and often regularly-changing, needs of multiple students in each of our many classes. But we are human, and we are not always going to manage it. Each parent views their own child's needs in isolation. We can't do that really.

If parents could be a fly on the wall in their child's school, or trail a full time teacher for the day, they might have a better understanding of how hard it is to even remember all those individual requirements, never mind balance them against the needs of the rest of the class.

Many of us parents are or used to be teachers so we do understand. The more robust the systems in place were it could really help. For me I've always had to be super organised and prepared which I think helps being a teacher (and a nurse.) I would make sure I reviewed my classes and students beforehand. I would have everything I needed available. And I treated others as I would wish to be treated at all times. These things would all help me enormously.

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randomstress · 20/12/2023 21:18

I'm neurodivergent ( but not autistic) and have dc that also are OP so I can recognize rigid thinking pretty easily I think.

Sometimes it can be super helpful in getting places and sometimes it gets in the way particularly when dealing with humans I think. I try and encourage my dc to be flexible thinkers but it isn't always easy.

I hope the new year at school year goes well for you all.

Sherrystrull · 20/12/2023 21:22

Op, when were you a teacher? Schools and expectations for teachers have increasingly massively in the last 5 years. Things are happening I could never have imagined.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 20/12/2023 21:26

Many of us parents are or used to be teachers

What percentage of parents do you think have been teachers?!

I don't know what kind of teaching you did, whether you were full time etc, but the ft teachers I know have far more work than they can do in a day, every day. Like I say, we try to be prepared, but I literally do not have time to 'review my classes and students' before every lesson.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:31

WombatChocolate · 20/12/2023 13:40

Absolutely.
Yes, 20 pages in, OP has said she is autistic herself.

Being ND in institutions which are chronically underfunded is always going to result in staff who are over-stretched and under-trained, as one of the consequences is what happened yesterday to OPs DD …..and far worse happens too.

As an earlier poster said, blame the government and its funding of schools as the root of provision not being better than it is.

Seeing the nuance in the situation and the events themselves and their causes as complex rather than simply down to someone being in a bad mood or choosing to be rude is necessary…..but OP probably finds that tricky.

We all want provision to be better. The parents with ND children on here want it to be better and have experienced vast amounts of disappointment and worse over the years. Ultimately, this will continue and probably get worse whilst this funding crisis continues.

OP wanted to vent and has had lots of opportunity here to do so. I hope it has helped her move on and forwards from this rather than becoming bogged down in the incident.

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When you have a meltdown and you figure out the trigger yes often there may be some background stuff contributing in small or larger ways but there is usually something that pushes you over the edge into meltdown.

That thing in this case was the teacher being rude to my DD. Now, I understand for me it is very simple to see that and it may be much harder for NT people to really understand.

But yes, it has been incredibly useful to vent and I've appreciated all the support so much.

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Mojolostforever · 20/12/2023 21:32

For me I've always had to be super organised and prepared which I think helps being a teacher (and a nurse.) I would make sure I reviewed my classes and students beforehand. I would have everything I needed available. And I treated others as I would wish to be treated at all times. These things would all help me enormously.

If you were so super organized and everything was going well for you in teaching, then why did you leave? ( I can think of many reasons).

And as a former teacher, you ought to have a good idea of the stresses of the job and more understanding of teachers who don't spend all day being mild mannered, kind and polite (which is not the best approach for keeping order in a classroom).
I think you need to put this behind you and move on.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:34

CHRIS003 · 20/12/2023 13:45

As a parent of an adult son with asd - I have been through all of this in the past.
Just wondering what the teachers on here think of the following.

Campaigning for the inclusion of special needs modules in teacher training.

Maybe work placements for student teachers in asd units etc. Also not just for asd - training sessions for adhd / dyslexia / children with medical or social needs and how education is affected.

CCTV in the classroom? Would it not solve a lot of parent teacher he said/ she said debates if a teacher could record each lesson or in lessons where there are particular issues ? Would it not save a lot of time / stress parents complaints etc. If you could just check back on a recording and see who did what ?

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No.1 sounds good but no.2 could be seen as an infringement of privacy for the DC. Things may come up in class that a student may not want to be recorded.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:38

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 13:53

@muggart well then everyone who occasionally has a bad/stressful day and accidentally isn't as perfect as they should be is unprofessional. I doubt she set out to upset the child, I imagine she feels bad, she apologised, there isn't much more she can do. No teacher can completely prevent this happening.

I don't know where this idea that she apologised has come from. Obviously my Dd's not seen her again so she's not had a chance to apologise!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:50

Happilyobtuse · 20/12/2023 13:58

See no one should be rude to anyone in a perfect world. Unfortunately people are rude all the time, either they are stressed, tired, moody etc. So the teacher should definitely be advised but blaming her for something that took place the next day is a bit of a stretch. Instead maybe we need to teach our children that no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. The teacher didn’t mean to hurt your feelings and she is sorry. It is more likely that this lack of routine and change to pyjamas upset her more that the teacher’s behaviour from the previous day. Did she say the teacher upsetting her the day before was the reason or are you assuming that?! Also if it is the reason you really need to teach her better coping mechanisms. Whether SEN or not we all need to be able to forgive each other for mistakes. None of us is perfect, we can only try. Also vilifying the teacher will not help in the large scheme of things, we live in a very imperfect world and we can’t expect everyone to follow a script on how to interact with our child.

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Is this a NT thing or just a not understanding meltdowns thing?

I can't understand why people think it is a stretch that something that happened at school the day before could impact that child when going back to school the next day. To me it's blindingly obvious!

I manage to teach my DD noone is perfect at the same time as validating the fact that the incident the day before caused her meltdown.

And why do you all think you know my DD better than me or the professionals around her. Why would wearing something that she would wear at all times if she could and was so happy to wear to school have caused the meltdown? Why when at that point there had been no change of routine did the meltdown happen at that time? People keep repeating this was the reason for the meltdown when it makes no sense whatsoever!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:55

Happilyobtuse · 20/12/2023 13:58

See no one should be rude to anyone in a perfect world. Unfortunately people are rude all the time, either they are stressed, tired, moody etc. So the teacher should definitely be advised but blaming her for something that took place the next day is a bit of a stretch. Instead maybe we need to teach our children that no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. The teacher didn’t mean to hurt your feelings and she is sorry. It is more likely that this lack of routine and change to pyjamas upset her more that the teacher’s behaviour from the previous day. Did she say the teacher upsetting her the day before was the reason or are you assuming that?! Also if it is the reason you really need to teach her better coping mechanisms. Whether SEN or not we all need to be able to forgive each other for mistakes. None of us is perfect, we can only try. Also vilifying the teacher will not help in the large scheme of things, we live in a very imperfect world and we can’t expect everyone to follow a script on how to interact with our child.

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And yes, I have said - yes, she said the teacher the day before was the cause of the meltdown. I need to teach her better coping mechanisms 😂 You do realise how highly resilient an autistic DC has to be to keep showing up at school day after day? You realise meltdowns aren't caused by a lack of resilience? I've not vilified the teacher and why would I need someone to follow a script on how to interact with my child?? She's autistic not a robot! 😮

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Hercisback · 20/12/2023 21:59

I would make sure I reviewed my classes and students beforehand. I would have everything I needed available.

Easy to say, harder to do.
Even the most organised and prepared teacher makes mistakes. I'm known for being on it and organised, but lesson changovers are tricky, especially if a room move is involved.

You've clearly not been a teacher for a while. The job is unrecognisable from 5 years ago in terms of pressure and increasing numbers of students with SEN.

adomizo · 20/12/2023 22:20

I'm unclear what you want from this thread. Many responses are in agreement that the teacher cannot consider everyone's needs all the time and that she misjudged this. Yes its upset your DD. But going to a mainstream secondary school is going to have ups and downs. NT children also have to navigate teachers who occasionally are snappy and times when things don't go their way. How can you move on from this ?

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 22:21

Hopefully op has realised the lsa is the one at fault and that there are no class ta's.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 22:31

adviceneeded1990 · 20/12/2023 14:40

@UndertheCedartree I understand. It just all still seems really unprofessional to me, staff members would never discuss one another’s behaviour in front of a parent at my school let alone with a child in the meeting too! Surely your DD will now be of the opinion that the LSA and HT are on her “side” against her class teachers? I agree with modelling the behaviour you wish to see but if I was that teacher I’d have the Union in speaking to the head teacher regarding the follow up!

There was no meeting! Staff members were not discussing one another's behaviour in front of me or my DD.

My DD spoke to the headteacher about what had happened with the science teacher. Not sure how that makes HT on her 'side' - I'm not aware there are any sides??

You'd have the union in if your headteacher spoke to you about unsettling an autistic Y7? Why?

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Happilyobtuse · 20/12/2023 22:32

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 21:55

And yes, I have said - yes, she said the teacher the day before was the cause of the meltdown. I need to teach her better coping mechanisms 😂 You do realise how highly resilient an autistic DC has to be to keep showing up at school day after day? You realise meltdowns aren't caused by a lack of resilience? I've not vilified the teacher and why would I need someone to follow a script on how to interact with my child?? She's autistic not a robot! 😮

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Yes, but you seem hell bent on going on and on about how it is the teachers fault that your child missed out on Christmas dinner. Isn’t it more due to her inability to handle an impolite or less than perfect response from another human being?! All children whether ND or not sometimes struggle with their emotions towards situations. I can understand if the teacher yelled at her in public or something but this was rather a terse comment by the teacher. A mistake by the teacher, but not one to make such a big deal about. My point is, this will keep happening if not at school then when she goes to the store or is walking on the street. How will she manage in those instances when people say or do things she doesn’t like?! Sorry but I can’t understand how you expect everyone who comes into contact with her to know she has these triggers or melt downs to simple situations. I agree no one likes to be talked to rudely, but it does happen all the time! Today at the supermarket I heard a person mumbling and being generally rude as an older man ahead of us was doing everything super slow. It was terrible manners. Luckily he seemed to have a hearing aid and I hoped for his sake he hadn’t heard.

I think as a parent you need to have more realistic expectations from other people. No one is perfect, and neither are you.

Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 22:33

Saying I don't know is perfectly fine. The teacher did not snap and really there was no other possible answer or way to deal with the situation.
Her lsa was not doing her role it appears.