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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:13

NotSayingImBatman · 20/12/2023 08:44

I’m sorry your poor DD had to go through that. You’ll get very little sympathy on MN, there’s a lot of anti SEN sentiment here, usually hidden under a thin veneer of support for teachers, but there’s some wonderful Facebook groups out there where you’ll get a lot of support. I’m autistic myself and I would’ve simply expired on the spot if a teacher had a) snapped at me and b) left me standing like a lemon in front of the whole class!

Can you name any FB groups, please?

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:19

wandawaves · 19/12/2023 23:33

I'm going to actually answer your AIBU.... no, YANBU to feel sad about Christmas lunch. You've spent so much time and energy prepping your DD for the lunch. You know that if she coped and even enjoyed the lunch, it would then have a follow on effect where it increased her confidence, and then she could've looked forward to other stressful events and used the lunch as an example of "well I was so nervous about it, but I did it anyway and it went really well".

YANBU to be frustrated at the teacher's comment (if it did indeed happen that way... but I wasn't there, so I'm not going to argue). My child has several mental health diagnoses, and despite explaining to all adults in her life the impact of a snappy comment vs the impact of a positive comment, it still happens. And the utter frustration of it happening is really difficult as a parent, because you know that that 3 second comment will have set back your child weeks, and all your hard work and your child's hard work building up to this moment has gone down the drain. So I get it.

The other thing I will say is that are you sure a transition to classes is the right approach for her? My child's anxiety causes huge FOMO, and she would've found it really stressful to have missed the first class in any subject, knowing that everyone else would know the teacher/each other/the seating plan, and she didn’t.
Perhaps if she really can't cope with going straight into the full timetable, then maybe the school should arrange her to go outside of class time and find the room, meet the teacher, find out where she is supposed to sit, so that when she goes for the first time, she doesn't have to be 'different' to the other kids and can go straight to sit down.

Edited

Thank you for really understanding! It's so frustrating to know that what was probably an off the cuff remark will have ramifications for my DD for a long time. That she has missed out on something that could have built her confidence due to it. I think many posters simply don't understand.

My DD didn't start at the beginning of term so this wasn't a consideration. She did a transition her first week then went full time. She missed a couple of days due to illness too, unfortunately.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:21

User2346 · 20/12/2023 00:17

Jesus I would love to know where all these Specialist schools are that posters are suggesting. In my county there are none for high functioning autism.

The ignorance of some of the replies are downright depressing and highlights the anti SEN attitude that is rife on mumsnet at the moment.

I know. None here, either.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:23

lostonmars · 20/12/2023 01:02

YANBU. And I hate how everyone is claiming that her meltdown wasn't caused by the teacher. How would they know?

Exactly!

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:26

NotAdultingToday · 20/12/2023 01:30

YANBU Oh op your poor dd! Of course you are allowed to be upset for her what happened was not her fault. I hope she is ok and it wont affect the rest of her christmas.

As an aside ND or not being snapped at by a new teacher in a new setting would upset anyone? Why are people being so unsympathetic?
Imagine starting new job out of your comfort zone and a manager doing that? You would you would at the very least feel uncomfortable/embarrassed? Or am i missing something and its ok to speak to people like that?

Yes, I agree. I just think it's unnecessary to be rude. I do get the feeling people think it's ok because she's a DC. If it was an adult starting a new job, the responses would be different. But that makes no sense to me considering DC are more vulnerable.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:27

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 01:47

OP, the responses here are appalling. And completely lacking in empathy for your dd and you. You’re allowed to be sad that she missed Christmas lunch. You’re allowed to be sad that she was let down and put in that position. It does happen, but it’s not ok.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:29

29andLost · 20/12/2023 05:43

This Friday

Most schools round here finish today. DS's college finished last Friday.

OP posts:
Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 15:29

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 14:42

Agreed. But they can do that in ways that are neuroinclusive. Autistic children can also be debriefed afterwards.

Or proper SEN support can be provided and stop expecting teachers to be everything to everyone.

Xmastime2023 · 20/12/2023 15:39

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 14:58

That’s uncalled for. It’s unacceptable to dismiss someone because they are autistic.

The op is making sensible, valid, reasonable points and doesn’t come across as at all anxious to me.

Ableism like this must be souring for any neurodivergent people you come into contact with. There will be many, even if you don’t know it.

I was being understanding I’m surrounded by ND family members and am potentially myself so 🤷🏻‍♀️

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:45

mrscatwoman · 20/12/2023 06:24

The thing that makes me uncomfortable about this thread is all the comments about how the LSA and and HT have all agreed with or told the OP that the teacher was out of order. I'm sorry, but I have know both SLT and LSAs to totally push teachers under a bus to parents. Many (not all, obviously) LSAs have quite an inappropriate relationship with the parents they deal with and tell them anything they want to hear. I once had to disband a group of Y10 students among the other classes after one of our teachers had an accident and went on long-term sick unexpectedly. We knew we couldn't get decent supply and it was Y10 and classes quite small we decided to disband them. No one had told me there was an autistic boy in the class who had had reasonable adjustments made throughout school and would not cope with this. His LSA wasn't there when I went in as he doesn't have someone with him all the time. He and a couple of others were to be in my class and, after disbanding the others I said, in what I thought was a friendly/normal voice, "Right, you three are with me in X room, let's go." He refused to come in my room and I was later accidentally copied into an email thread with his mum saying he didn't like me, didn't like the way I spoke to him and couldn't understand a word I said! The SLT link to his year group had then replied agreeing with her and saying he would get the boy moved from my class - he hadn't even spoken to me at that point! He just wanted an easy life and wanted to tell both me and the mum what we wanted to hear. That upset me and left me questioning how I had spoken and what I had said that was so awful. Now time has passed I can see he wouldn't have coped with the sudden change but we as a school, normally great for SEND with parents choosing us for this reason, let him down due to the sudden nature of the issue we faced with the teacher's accident.

Sorry, but Heads should support their teachers and this can be done while still being respectful to parents and acknowledging their concerns. This didn't happen here and with the LSA doing nothing to support the child at the time but then talking to mum about how awful the teacher's behaviour was, I feel like it's a bit of an indictment of the school, and could well at least partly explain the teacher's snappiness!

The Head is very popular with the teachers and seen as very supportive which I don't think would be the case if she threw her teachers under the bus. The LSA mentioned some things to the Head when she asked. The LSA did not tell me anything. I heard as I was there comforting my DD. The Head spoke to me about the schools values and expectations without criticising the individual member of staff. She told me actions she had taken. I had not expressed any concerns. As I've said the LSA sorted the situation and she didn't talk to me about how awful the teachers behaviour was!!

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:51

EarringsandLipstick · 20/12/2023 07:05

Her meltdown was specifically linked to that incident

This was not stated in your OP. How do you know this?

I think you have been deeply unfair about the teacher in this situation.

That doesn't mean you are BU to be upset that DD missed the event; but you are to blame the teacher.

You've also shown complete indifference to the posts by many teachers here explaining how challenging their roles are and that mistakes may happen, but they do their best. It sounds like in this instance the person letting your DD down was the LSA, more than the teacher.

I think I made it quite clear in my OP. How do I know? 1. I know my DD and 2. She told me/the headteacher.

How have I been indifferent? I've been a teacher, I've explained I understand the job is tough etc. The LSA sorted the situation.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:53

43ontherocksporfavor · 20/12/2023 07:08

Happens on every school. Do you work there ?

No but I'm basing that on 2 close friends who work there/did work there and Ofsted reports.

Those things didn't happen at my high school, although they did at others.

OP posts:
mrscatwoman · 20/12/2023 15:54

Come on, OP, you can't possibly know how popular and supportive the head is seen as by the teachers! Neither can I, obviously, but this insistence that the only one possibly in the wrong is the teacher is just odd.

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:55

Mumof2NDers · 20/12/2023 07:14

Out if interest do you have a ND child? It really doesn’t take much to unsettle them. My DS is 16 and ND. A couple of weeks ago I took him for an interview. We got there early which was a huge mistake! He doesn’t do early, early means waiting! He was already nervous and then on top of that early! He got totally overwhelmed and walked out (before the interview). It’s heartbreaking watching your child struggle with things that a lot of children would take in their stride!

It is isn't it? I hope your DS has another opportunity come along soon.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:59

FUPAgirl · 20/12/2023 07:35

Many of us work in exhausting roles. Would you be happy to be snapped at by a midwife, a GP, a shop worker, or in fact your own boss?

You have 2 weeks holidays coming, I'm not allowed time off over Christmas so am working my usual hours, including Christmas day. Is it OK if I snap at mums and baby in my care?

Of course it's not OK, so it's not OK for teachers either, even if it is a 'long term' 🙄

I agree, it just isn't a line I would ever cross. I don't snap at students or patients or colleagues no matter how tired I am at the end of a long shift.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 16:03

EnidSpyton · 20/12/2023 07:48

@FUPAgirl I have said repeatedly it’s not ‘ok’ to snap at kids. It’s not something that should be habitual, of course.

However, I do think it should be understandable that sometimes, due to the stresses involved of being in sole charge of large groups of children, teachers will lose their cool.

I don’t think it’s that difficult to imagine multiple scenarios where a teacher might be pushed to snapping at a child.

We all snap sometimes. Even you. I’ve been snapped at by medical staff before, including in A&E when I was in pain and frightened. Did I call for the head of the doctor who snapped at me? No. I understood that he was knackered and had probably been dealing with a lot of shit over the previous 12 hours. I understood that no one can be perfect and professional 100% of the time.

I think we can all agree it’s not nice to be snapped at. But I think we can also all agree that people aren’t perfect and sometimes we need to seek to understand rather than accuse.

Did I call for the head teacher? No, I didn't. I just got on with caring for a distressed DC and talked about how the teacher may have had a bad day - i.e. sought to understand rather than accuse.

OP posts:
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 20/12/2023 16:03

Many of us work in exhausting roles. Would you be happy to be snapped at by a midwife, a GP, a shop worker, or in fact your own boss?

Happy? No. But I would think that getting a less-than-sunny response occasionally is a normal part of human interaction.

I agree, it just isn't a line I would ever cross. I don't snap at students or patients or colleagues no matter how tired I am at the end of a long shift.

Literally never? Well you must be a very unusual person then.

AnneValentine · 20/12/2023 16:06

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 22:42

Basically the exchange was the straw that broke the camels back. She was doing so well managing everything and then this just really set her back.

If it hadn’t been that it would have been something else.

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 16:07

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 20/12/2023 07:55

Maybe you, the head, all the other teachers who got involved with the 'looks' about how awful they think this teacher is and the LSA will be lucky and this dreadful, unprofessional teacher will hand her notice in over the break, for her sake I hope she does and moves on to a better school.

It's interesting that the teachers find the Head very supportive. She's been great with a difficult situation of one of my friends.

I wasn't involved in any 'looks', other teachers weren't involved in any 'looks', I just thought I saw something pass between the LSA and Head like maybe this wasn't the first time this had happened. I could have been wrong as it was very chaotic at the time. There were certainly no 'looks' about how dreadful the teachers was!!

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 16:10

ItAintGonnaGoDownEasyIfItAintCheezy · 20/12/2023 08:45

Maybe if you know best and expect a one-to-one level of service and attention, you should home school.

I know best about my DD, yes, like any parent. If that was the qualification for home ed we'd all be doing it! 😂

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 16:19

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 20/12/2023 08:58

So it only 'seems' like it's been looked into? The LSA was actually helping another student so wasn't actually paying proper attention? Has the teacher actually confirmed what is being said about her? As a nurse I'm assuming you'll be happy with your professional registration being queried to the nmc without any actual discussion should a pt or their family or a colleague accuse you of something?

There has been discussion.

OP posts:
NotSayingImBatman · 20/12/2023 16:20

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:13

Can you name any FB groups, please?

Of course! “Autism Support Group UK - For Parents, Caregivers and Autistic People” is great and has a lot of adult autistic voices, which is super helpful. Also “UK Autism Spectrum Parents Support Group” is a great place for advice and to vent when it all gets too much.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 20/12/2023 16:21

Was the teacher involved in this 'discussion' and allowed to give her views?
The LSA isn't one of your good friends who works at the school?

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 16:22

DiaryOfaTTCer · 20/12/2023 09:04

How do you know that the incident with the teacher is linked to the meltdown the following day, which resulted in her missing Christmas dinner?

Did your child say that was the reason? If so, why?

I've already answered this multiple times.

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 20/12/2023 16:24

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 15:59

I agree, it just isn't a line I would ever cross. I don't snap at students or patients or colleagues no matter how tired I am at the end of a long shift.

This expectation is unrealistic - that no-one will ever speak in a way that makes someone uncomfortable.

I’m sorry, but every person in the workplace at some point has spoken using words or a tone which might not be welcomed by others. Or they have used a facial expression or body language to show exasperation. And OP, if you’ve been a nurse and worked in a school, you will have done it too.

It’s not right and it will impact some people more than others, but it is a common thing to happen. Sometimes children think they’ve been snapped at or spoken to roughly, and a teacher might have zero awareness of it or it can be a perception thing. Other times, they like all workers in all jobs might say they’ve had a bad day…and like workers in all jobs, might apologise to clients or colleagues for such words. Again, these things happen.

People generally move on from them. I nudneratnd some people will be more impacted than others. Parents usually move on from these things and see them in the broader context ….but I suppose some hang onto them and want to keep talking them over and over and over. Why is that? Is it that they’ve. Tonight. Else to talk about? That they just want to talk about something? Op I think you said you often post in AIBU to get traffic. Is this what this is about…..you simply want to talk and this happens to be the thing youVe posted and has generated a response?

There are things about it all that are odd. Firstly OP didn’t hear the teacher speak. The exact words and tone are unknown. The word ‘snap’ has been used multiple times, as well as ‘Bite her head off’ - difficult for OP or us to know exactly what the tone was. DD was upset. OP is adamant it was this and this only that set her off. Difficult to know. OP is certain she would never speak like this and talks about it being unacceptable - but people being short in their speech when dealing with someone else is pretty common and doesn’t usually generate 20 pages of discussion. And of course too, there is the point about OP saying she’s an autistic single mum to 2 autistic children too. I wonder if OP has considered if perhaps her view of events might be a little narrow or black and white and that crucially the situation and what happened and how people speak is more complex and nuanced than the way she is seeing this event.llwhich she didn’t actually see.

One thing I found odd is the HT involvement. HTs are busy people are rarely involved in day-to-day issues involving children and staff unless they are big big deals and escalated to them. HTs involvement in this particular incident seems unusual. Likewise, OP talks about HT and other staff as if she knows them all Persoanlly, how they are all regarded by other staff and children and about the running of the school as if she knows everything about it all….after 3 weeks! Again, strikes me as odd.

It would be fascinating to hear an account if happening. Scrim the teacher viewpoint or the HTs or those other staff who saw DD that day at various points. I wonder what info we would get that we don’t receive here.

And none of this is to say that what happened is right. But things that aren’t right happen all the time. Even with plans in place for ND children, in secondary schools which are busy places with over stretched resources, things happen. And if DD has been in schools for the last few years as OP says she has, this won’t be the first or last time these things happen. Is OP really upset by each of these incidents, so to take to MN and post for many many pages about them? Is the thread really about DD or OP?