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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
CoffeeCantata · 20/12/2023 11:46

Sad, yes, in the way things turned out for your daughter, but surely she will have to get used to this kind of thing. Teachers (I was one) are professionals, but they're also human and may sometimes show a bit of exasperation. It was unfortunate but I don't think you should load blame on to the teacher (you don't know what the circs were exactly) and as pps have said, your daughter will need to build resilience - things won't always be optimal.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:49

carolsandchristmas · 19/12/2023 22:06

Woo I feel very invested in this thread. As a mum of an ASD child who loves school and copes well with changes in routine.
I also work with autistic child on a daily basis.

I am absolutely shocked by the ignorance on this thread. Secondary school it may be. Stretched teachers there are. But ultimately at ELEVEN, the child is still just that; a child. With neurodiversity. Who just needed a bit of compassion in a new school.

If I rocked up at a new job and a member of staff spoke to me like that because I asked a reasonable question, I would question it all.

OP, as your daughter grows, she will learn to manage herself in these stressful situations. But at the moment it is not possible. She will get there and she will encounter people in all walks of life. But when teachers and school are meant to be a safe place and her experience wasn't what she expected, then I don't blame her for reacting purely on her anxiety. Autism is all about anxiety. And the next time this may happen, she will cope better.

You're clearly a great mum who has her daughter's best interest at heart.

The teacher in question won't be questioning herself at all. She will just remember in future and maybe talk to your daughter at some point.

I've witnessed worse from teachers with infant aged children. It's scary. It shouldn't be okay. No matter how stretched teachers may be.

I think what many people don't realise is emotionally she's about 9. Imagine how daunting it would be at going into all these different classes at 9 and then having your head bitten off!

Yes, it's completely understandable her reaction. But yes, hopefully next time she will cope better.

And thank you, I have fought tooth and nail for both of my DC to access education. Both are autistic.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:51

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:12

And you’re totally fine for your Dd to be left sleeping past her lunch? That’s ok?

In the circumstance it was fine. I ended up going to collect her. She wouldn't have been left hungry, whatever happened.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:52

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:15

Still you haven’t said what the teacher said! Just ‘snapped’ .

I've said exactly what was said.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:54

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 22:16

School Christmas dinner is basic roast dinner btw so no she didn’t miss much.

As I've already said it wasn't the actual food she was looking forward to. It was celebrating Christmas with her form. They make it really fun.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:59

Kangaboo · 19/12/2023 22:28

I am also surprised that you don't seem to have taken issue with the fact she spent morning and lunchtime sleeping at school, missing those lessons. That to me would be a bigger issue.

They had their Christmas dinner early as they fit more than one year group in the day. So at that point she'd only missed one lesson. However she ended up missing the whole day as I was called to collect her. Yes, it was a pity she missed those lessons.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:05

SkinOffNose · 19/12/2023 22:29

Excuse my ignorance but do you think staff should have tried to wake her up for the dinner? Or would that have made things a million times worse?

Show quote history

Oh, no, please ask any questions you have. The conclusion from the staff was that she had worn herself out with the meltdown so it was best to let her sleep. However after about an hour they tried to rouse her and she was still extremely sleepy so they decided to ask me to come and collect her. DD was challenged to go to the Learning support centre when she didn't want to leave my side. She rose to that challenge but that really was enough for one day. I think the staff dealt with it well.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:06

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 19/12/2023 22:31

What exactly do you think the teacher should have done differently?

Just been polite.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:08

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 22:36

YANBU to feel sad.

But why write such a thread if not to vilify the teacher?

Just not to feel so alone in my sadness.

OP posts:
WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 12:09

People have no clue, OP, and are being extremely ableist here. Ignore them.

‘Can’t go through secondary school wearing ear defenders and having meltdowns’ has to be the most ableist comment I’ve ever heard. On a par with ‘can’t go through secondary school limping and wearing callipers’ .

I wear ear plugs out and about. I had regular meltdowns into adulthood until I was able to regulate sensory input. I have accommodations in the workplace. The singe thing I want to teach my autistic dc earlier than j learnt it is to advocate for themselves and meet their autistic needs.

Asking an autistic person not to be autistic is unacceptable.

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 12:12

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:08

Just not to feel so alone in my sadness.

Show quote history

You’re not alone, OP. There are lots of us feeling sad because our autistic dc aren’t able to access the fun stuff this week. Which is ok if they don’t mind missing it but often they do. They want to join in but also can’t deal with it. It sounds like your dd could have managed it if the teacher hadn’t snapped at her and pushed her into meltdown. So YANBU to be annoyed and frustrated that the teacher doesn’t understand the effects of her snapping, and sad for your dd missing the dinner.

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 12:12

The responses on this thread are horrid. And they say it’s autistic people who lack empathy.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:14

Teder · 19/12/2023 22:43

I think many many people realise that teaching is underfunded, poorly resourced, lacking in respect from others and genuinely a tough profession. However, this is an 11 year old ND child and they are not the one in the position of power here. We’ve had lots of informative posts about the pressures of teaching so teachers on here have given their perspective but we need to look at it from this child’s perspective. Of course the OP is going to protect her child and prioritise her.

While some people (not all) are badgering the OP and also commenting “maybe the teacher is ND” well, perhaps the OP is also ND……so give her a break! She’s not asking for the teacher to be hung, drawn and quartered. She’s disappointed and upset. It doesn’t sound like @UndertheCedartree has gone in “fuming” and demanding the teacher is fired - I assume?!

YANBU to be upset your DD missed out, especially as you had planned. However, if you can support her to focus on how amazingly well she has done to transition to a new school, that sounds like a positive. It won’t take away the disappointment but sounds like she has been extremely resilient in starting her new school.

Yes, I'm autistic too. No I haven't gone in fuming, I haven't made a complaint atall. My DD just told the headteacher why she was feeling so upset today.

Thank you, yes, we will focus on the positives!

OP posts:
Sartre · 20/12/2023 12:17

Was the teacher supposed to wake her up so she could have the dinner? I’d imagine the teacher thought leaving her to rest was the kindest solution.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:17

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 19/12/2023 22:47

Bollocks you've not looked to apportion blame! You've castiged this science teacher to her colleagues, the LSA, and senior management. If any of my dc or dc in my family suggested they wanted to teach I'd absolutely warn them off.

Show quote history

Where have I said I castigated this teacher to her colleagues, the LSA and senior management? I've not said a word about her!

And if you want to warn the off do so, it's no skin off my nose.

OP posts:
Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 12:21

UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 12:06

Just been polite.

Show quote history

You are still stuck on this despite the numerous posts explaining how hard teachers lives are and that we all have off days?
Have you never snapped or behaved slightly less than ideally?

ntmdino · 20/12/2023 12:30

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 12:21

You are still stuck on this despite the numerous posts explaining how hard teachers lives are and that we all have off days?
Have you never snapped or behaved slightly less than ideally?

Show quote history

That's all well and good, but holding to that perspective makes it easy to lose sight of the fact that a disabled child was specifically and uniquely disadvantaged by the teacher's outburst and her lack of understanding of the consequences of her conduct.

Now, I've not read all 20 pages in detail, but it's totally possible that the teacher didn't actually know that OP's daughter is autistic. That'd be the only genuine mitigating factor here, because otherwise it's outright discrimination, and excusing it as "having an off-day" wouldn't be a mitigation for any other disability or protected characteristic (and nor should it be). Try to imagine how a teacher snapping at an amputee because they couldn't get to their seat and asked for help might go over - would having a bad day excuse it, or would they (as the actual adult in the room) be expected to put that to one side to avoid being the cause of more problems for the child?

ShittingPeugeot · 20/12/2023 12:43

lavenderlou · 19/12/2023 18:53

OP, best to stick to the SEN board to discuss issues like this. Most posters in AIBU do not understand why what seems like no big deal to a NT child is a huge deal to a child with autism. I am a teacher and a parent of autistic children. Tone of voice can be a huge deal to children with autism. I would make sure the school put into her plan that teachers need to be aware of how they use their tone of voice around her. It's not a criticism of the teacher, it's just making them aware that this SEN student needs an adjustment in how they are spoken to compared to a NT student.

Edited

Out of curiosity what happens then when the class is getting spoken to as a whole, say the whole class is getting told of for collectively being disruptive, does that now not happen due to one or two autistic people in the class?

I'm genuinely curious before anyone slates me!

Teder · 20/12/2023 12:51

Some people really lack the ability to be empathetic. Yes, this is AIBU but it’s clear
the OP is upset and frustrated that her daughter had a bad day. Perhaps she does not have anyone in real life and wanted to share her human emotions. Lots of people on here are saying the teacher is only human and was probably tired and stressed, so snapped. That’s fair. It’s equally fair that the OP is feeling emotional.

randomstress · 20/12/2023 13:20

I been reading through the thread and feeling sorry for both dd and the teacher.

I was wondering if OP was ND herself as her thinking is very rigid and also very black and white.
Most of life is grey, messy and full of mistakes.

Try to support your dd to accept that people make mistakes, to show grace and keep on advocating for yourself and others. This may be the first mistake but it won't be the last.

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 13:27

ShittingPeugeot · 20/12/2023 12:43

Out of curiosity what happens then when the class is getting spoken to as a whole, say the whole class is getting told of for collectively being disruptive, does that now not happen due to one or two autistic people in the class?

I'm genuinely curious before anyone slates me!

Show quote history

This is a huge deal for many autistic children. Mine tend to think they are being told off, and it causes issues such as meltdown, not sleeping, school avoidance, panic.

Ideally, whole class teaching should be neuro-inclusive. There are no disadvantages to neurotypical children and it ensures that undiagnosed neurodivergent children aren’t traumatised.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 13:36

@ntmdino I would be surprised if the child was 'specifically and uniquely disadvantaged' deliberately though. We really do expect teachers to be super human sometimes.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 20/12/2023 13:37

WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 13:27

This is a huge deal for many autistic children. Mine tend to think they are being told off, and it causes issues such as meltdown, not sleeping, school avoidance, panic.

Ideally, whole class teaching should be neuro-inclusive. There are no disadvantages to neurotypical children and it ensures that undiagnosed neurodivergent children aren’t traumatised.

Show quote history

I am sorry it's hard for your children, however a teacher must also be able to discipline a class within reason - it actually would be a disadvantage were he/she not able to do that, and learning may suffer.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 20/12/2023 13:39

Teachers do try to deal with the umpteen different, and often regularly-changing, needs of multiple students in each of our many classes. But we are human, and we are not always going to manage it. Each parent views their own child's needs in isolation. We can't do that really.

If parents could be a fly on the wall in their child's school, or trail a full time teacher for the day, they might have a better understanding of how hard it is to even remember all those individual requirements, never mind balance them against the needs of the rest of the class.

WombatChocolate · 20/12/2023 13:40

randomstress · 20/12/2023 13:20

I been reading through the thread and feeling sorry for both dd and the teacher.

I was wondering if OP was ND herself as her thinking is very rigid and also very black and white.
Most of life is grey, messy and full of mistakes.

Try to support your dd to accept that people make mistakes, to show grace and keep on advocating for yourself and others. This may be the first mistake but it won't be the last.

Absolutely.
Yes, 20 pages in, OP has said she is autistic herself.

Being ND in institutions which are chronically underfunded is always going to result in staff who are over-stretched and under-trained, as one of the consequences is what happened yesterday to OPs DD …..and far worse happens too.

As an earlier poster said, blame the government and its funding of schools as the root of provision not being better than it is.

Seeing the nuance in the situation and the events themselves and their causes as complex rather than simply down to someone being in a bad mood or choosing to be rude is necessary…..but OP probably finds that tricky.

We all want provision to be better. The parents with ND children on here want it to be better and have experienced vast amounts of disappointment and worse over the years. Ultimately, this will continue and probably get worse whilst this funding crisis continues.

OP wanted to vent and has had lots of opportunity here to do so. I hope it has helped her move on and forwards from this rather than becoming bogged down in the incident.