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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:01

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 19/12/2023 21:32

How have they 'dealt with it'?

The head teacher just had a word with the teacher to make sure she has all the information she needs and knows how to support my DD. I'm sure she checked in with her to see if she was ok (based on things teachers from the school have told me.) Although that's of course private between the head teacher and member of staff.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:02

Hellenski · 19/12/2023 21:32

I feel sorry for the teacher who has been clearly undermined by the headteacher. Not appropriate. And yes I have an ASD child too. I accept he will encounter adults at school who may not 100% know how to cater to his needs every moment of the day.

I really don't believe that, atall. That was not how the headteacher managed it.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:03

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 19/12/2023 21:36

100% what a shit management.

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Clearly not as the headteacher is well liked by the staff.

OP posts:
WaitingForMojo · 20/12/2023 11:05

You sound extremely sensible OP, and the posters having a go clearly have no clue how difficult and stressful it is to have a secondary aged child struggling to attend and access school, whilst trying to keep a job. I’m in a similar situation and I think you’re doing a fantastic job.

Some posters here seem to have no idea how the Equality Act and inclusion works, or to understand that autistic meltdown is a neurological event due to sensory overload and not a behavioural issue.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:06

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 21:38

And obviously the LSA went and spoke to the parent and or headteacher over such a minor thing. The LSA should’ve managed the child and explained that the teacher would get her seated once she had managed the other chn.

The LSA didn't speak to the parent or headteacher over a minor thing. Not sure where you are getting that from.

The LSA did deal with the situation and got DD sat down.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:10

adomizo · 19/12/2023 21:40

This. I also think it's fair to assume that the teacher didn't snap at her, this may have been your daughters interpretation of the situation. Teachers are just people managing a huge number of different needs and requests its really difficult to please everyone all the time.

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Please read the thread! It would only be Y7 in the canteen.

Why is it fair to assume the teacher didn't snap at her when my Dd and LSA both report she did?

You don't need to please everyone all of the time but you do need basic manners, imo.

OP posts:
Boomboom22 · 20/12/2023 11:10

So the op is a nurse. And has been a teacher. I do not buy for a second that most nurses are polite, have you ever been in a hospital?
The head having a word is quite a big deal, much much more than extremely rude nurses ever get, un fact nurses are usually defended when laughing very loudly at all hours, ignoring buzzers, outright ignoring anyone they walk past. People are threatened / scared of not getting any treatment at all if they complain.
And still it's not clear what is wrong with a science teacher appropriately asking a new student to wait to allocate a seat and even going so far as to apologise for snapping and explaining they are in a bad mood! Teachers must be smiley friendly robots but nurses are perfectly allowed to be sullen, in fact it appears to be a prerequisite. Not nurses at the Dr's, they see you 1-1 so are much better at appearing at least to care.

cardibach · 20/12/2023 11:12

@UndertheCedartree if the LSA didn't go to the head and you didn't complain how did this meeting where everyone was looking at each other and saying the teacher snapped happen?
You said the teacher admitted snapping and implied that was in a meeting then later suggested she said this to the class. As a teacher I am aware of times I've been a bit flustered by one of the myriad things already outlined here and will say to a class 'sorry if I'm a bit snappy' in case it comes out in my voice. It doesn't mean I think I've actually snapped. Teenagers will often say, for eg, that you've shouted at them when you've made a criticism in a normal voice so I'm aware they often perceive things differently (particularly the ND ones) and I try to preempt that.
If the teacher didn't ask your DD to wait to be seated what did she actually say? You haven't said.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:13

MrsWhites · 19/12/2023 21:41

Wow, I hope many of the posters on here don’t work with SEN children!

Clearly a lot of the responders have no clue about autism - to say an autistic child should build resilience or to accuse them of ‘entitlement’ - I’m actually gobsmacked.

I’m sorry your DD missed the Christmas lunch OP, hopefully school have other Christmas events she can join in on!

I know! Expecting support with her autism - so entitled!

They have a short day today with a small advent service in the chapel.

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 20/12/2023 11:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:20

penjil · 19/12/2023 21:44

Teachers cannot bend over backwards to accommodate special needs in a mainstream school, they can only do their best. The OPs child isn't in the best school for them, and this is why it's tougher than normal. Tougher for everyone.

In year 7, most pupils are pretty much well behaved, but by year 9, the now teenagers will get rowdy, hormonal, and opinionated....and I'm not sure how the OP's daughter will cope then. It must be a worry.

She can't go through 5 years of secondary school wearing ear defenders and having meltdowns.

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Their best is good enough. And I believe this is the best school for her. It isn't rowdy among any age group.

Many, many autistic people go through life having meltdowns and wearing ear defenders. Should she be denied an education then?!

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:22

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 21:47

Snapped how? What was said?

As I said in my OP she snapped at her 'I don't know!' so poor DD is thinking I don't know where to sit and the teacher doesn't know where to sit plus she is angry with me for not knowing where to sit and obviously it was distressing for her.

OP posts:
brickastley · 20/12/2023 11:24

People saying mainstream isn't for her are probably, sadly, right. It's not the place because they cannot provide everything the DD needs in terms of support - but, there isn't another option. The problem is, as always; funding, resources, etc. There isn't somewhere else for the DD to go, specialised schools generally don't have lots of spaces for kids who need some support. If you don't need all of the support you won't be getting into a specialist school, and even if she did it would probably be detrimental in many ways.

I had to take my DD out of school because she fell in between the 2 and there was no suitable place for her.

ntmdino · 20/12/2023 11:26

penjil · 19/12/2023 21:44

Teachers cannot bend over backwards to accommodate special needs in a mainstream school, they can only do their best. The OPs child isn't in the best school for them, and this is why it's tougher than normal. Tougher for everyone.

In year 7, most pupils are pretty much well behaved, but by year 9, the now teenagers will get rowdy, hormonal, and opinionated....and I'm not sure how the OP's daughter will cope then. It must be a worry.

She can't go through 5 years of secondary school wearing ear defenders and having meltdowns.

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You do know that meltdowns (and shutdowns) are involuntary, don't you? It's not a childish tantrum, it's a neurological reaction.

And why can't she go through school (and the rest of her life) wearing ear defenders (or noise-cancelling headphones)? I do whenever I'm out of the house, and it hasn't hampered me in the slightest.

Honestly, it really sounds like your assessment of your own knowledge on the subject is at odds with the reality of it.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:27

DuplicateUserName · 19/12/2023 21:51

Clearly a lot of the responders have no clue about autism

No, I think that's very clear.

But the OP is far from new to Mumsnet, knows exactly what AIBU is like and yet chose not to post in one of the neurodiverse topics.

Plus she's 1 million percent sure she's right, and point blank refuses to say exactly what the LSA said to back her DC's version up.

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It's true I do know what AIBU is like. I do often use it for traffic. But perhaps this topic would have been better on a different topic, fair enough.

My AIBU was AIBU to feel sad for DD. I'm not a million per cent sure I'm right about that. Obviously I know that I know what happened at school. I haven't point blank refused to say what the LSA said! Read my posts and you'll see I answered that already!!

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:28

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 21:52

If an LSA was in the room, why hadn’t they taken charge of your DD on arrival?
Sleeping through lunch was not the teacher’s fault but the fault of the staff the next day.

Because they were dealing with another Dc I assume. They stepped in as soon as they could.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:30

lavenderlou · 19/12/2023 21:53

The number of people coming on here suggesting that mainstream school might not be the place for OP's DD clearly have absolutely no idea of the state of SEND education in this country.

If you are academically capable there are next to no specialist schools or units for autistic children. The choice is to struggle through mainstream or be home educated.

There are barely any special school places for autistic children with high levels of learning difficulty or non-verbal autistic children.

Edited

This is so true. It's laughable to suggest she could get specialist provision. Many DC with more complex needs than her don't get it either.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:33

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 21:55

"rude teachers"

What exactly was said?

One teacher possibly at the end of her tether and who knows what kind of day she'd had leading up to this.

She snapped at my DD 'I don't know,' when she politely asked where to sit.

I'm sorry if she's had a bad day, genuinely, I expect she's tired and I hope she enjoys her Christmas break. But manners cost nothing.

OP posts:
Mojolostforever · 20/12/2023 11:33

for the record I didn't make a complaint about this teacher. The head teacher looked into what had happened and made the judgement that the teachers behaviour was unacceptable.

How did the head teacher know what happened? Was she in the lesson at the time?

If not, then someone must have said something.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:35

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 21:58

@lavenderlou The only way I'm reading the posts about mainstream not being suitable, is for the same reason you describe, underfunding. Mainstream is so cut to the bone, the extra support is gone and now mostly falls on to classroom teachers. Leading to situations like OP described.

Your DC has an LSA, why didn't they intervene and direct DC?

Because she was dealing with another DC I imagine.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:38

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 22:03

What do you actually want now OP?

You can't change the past, you've had a good bitch on MN about the teacher.

What will be different next time?

I'd be questioning why the LSA took so long to react tbh. The LSA should know your DC pretty well three weeks in, unlike the teacher who had met her for 30 seconds.

Nothing really 🤷

What will be different? Well hopefully the Science teacher will be having a better day, hopefully she'll have all the information she needs to support DD and she'll find it easier to be polite.

I imagine the LSA was just dealing with another DC. It may have been said, I can't remember.

OP posts:
Chickenfeed67 · 20/12/2023 11:40

Again, OP, how can you know the LSA was dealing with another child? Why are you making this assumption?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:41

adviceneeded1990 · 19/12/2023 22:03

@UndertheCedartree

“The head teacher has told me that she doesn't think it was good enough, either. “

The head said this without having heard the teachers version of events? And the LSA discussed her own opinion of whether or not the teacher “snapped” with you, a parent?!

The school 100% has problems with professionalism and the head has opened herself up to trade union action!

No, this was after speaking to the teacher. And no, the LSA didn't discuss anything with me, I was just there with my DD when the LSA made the comment to the headteacher.

OP posts:
Christmasbrie · 20/12/2023 11:43

This thread is wild! It seems like the headteacher rightly or wrongly acknowledged that the teacher was grumpy and has resolved to ensure it doesn't happen again. What do you really want from this thread OP? Of course it's a shame DD missed her Christmas lunch, you've attributed her missing it to an event the day before which has been addressed rather than the overwhelming nature of a day in pyjamas and first time using the dinner hall and are now just wasting time trying to justify yourself to strangers on the Internet.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 20/12/2023 11:44

Malvasylvestris · 19/12/2023 22:04

I am a science teacher and I would not snap at a y7 child for asking a reasonable question. Adults in authority should model the behaviours they want to see in others.

If the teacher has admitted being in a bad mood and snapping, a discussion involving an apology could help?

I really do believe in modelling good behaviour. It's how I've brought my DC up. It is also very clear that this modelling works at this school as it really stands out for the student's good behaviour.

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