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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sad my DD missed Christmas dinner

811 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 17:25

My 11yo DD is autistic and she has recently started at a new school. The school have been great in supporting her.

Sadly, she went into a Science class for the first time yesterday and as they have set seats she asked the teacher where she should sit. The teacher snapped at her that she didn't know and she had to stand at the front of the class waiting for the others to sit down which really unsettled and upset her.

Today was their Christmas dinner day and they could go in wearing pyjamas. She was really looking forward to this. But as we got closer to school this morning she got more and more distressed. Once in school she had a full on meltdown that went on for ages. Eventually she calmed down enough for me to leave and they took her up to the Learning support centre where she promptly fell asleep exhausted after her melt down. She missed her Christmas dinner! After a while they asked me to come and pick her up. I feel so sad for her. I'd spent a lot of time preparing her for the Christmas dinner and it was going to be a nice way to introduce her to the canteen. And she was so looking forward to it. All spoilt because a teacher took her bad mood out on her.

OP posts:
Livelovebehappy · 19/12/2023 21:00

How did you know your dd was ‘snapped’ at? Children are prone to a bit of exaggeration if they want to get their point across. And children have to be taught resilience- you’re not always going to be there to protect her from being snapped at by both adults and children. I know you want everyone to be lovely to your child, but the reality is that that’s not always going to be the case. As she goes through secondary school, there will provably be many incidences where she is upset about what people say or how they say it, and to not teach her how to prepare for this reality is a huge disservice to bringing your child up to be able to cope with this as she moves into adulthood.

Thegoodbadandugly · 19/12/2023 21:01

I cannot for the life of me understand why you waited for the busiest noisest day in the canteen to introduce her to the canteen it was always going to produce a meltdown.

StupidStunts · 19/12/2023 21:02

Thegoodbadandugly · 19/12/2023 21:01

I cannot for the life of me understand why you waited for the busiest noisest day in the canteen to introduce her to the canteen it was always going to produce a meltdown.

OP has already explained that it wouldn't have been - it would have been quieter than normal. I cannot for the life of me understand why so many posters think they know better what OPs daughter could cope with that OP and school support staff who actually know the child. Ffs

Jacfrost · 19/12/2023 21:05

Thegoodbadandugly · 19/12/2023 21:01

I cannot for the life of me understand why you waited for the busiest noisest day in the canteen to introduce her to the canteen it was always going to produce a meltdown.

OP has said it was y7 only. It sounds like the Xmas lunch days at DD's school which are done by year group on different days. It's far less overwhelming than a normal lunchtime - everybody gets their food and then is sat down eating at the same time...much easier than the constant stream of all year groups coming and going of their own accord throughout lunch

43ontherocksporfavor · 19/12/2023 21:05

There is not enough funding and yet we have to accommodate all of these needs in a mainstream classroom while managing
all the usual behaviours and Ofsted demands.

In my class of 26, 6 have SEN but only one has 1:1 support. Today I was kicked and verbally abused by a 6 year old. This happens weekly. On top of this we still have to make sure assessments are done, books are checked, Christmas nativities go well and everyone is happy and I do my best Miss Honey impression every minute of the day. Sorry, but sometimes after my name has been called 50 times in 10 minutes I might ‘be a bit snappy’.

Kangaboo · 19/12/2023 21:05

I am glad I am not a teacher!

Surely the learning support team should have woken up your DD if she slept all morning and through lunch?

I know you are going to think this sounds crass and exclusionary @UndertheCedartree but as a parent of secondary school aged children it's dog eat dog in mainstream & if you think the teacher spoke sharply it's going to be far worse what comes from the children. You may not have alternatives to a mainstream place, but it sounds like secondary is going to be a very tough journey for your DD and you.

Thegoodbadandugly · 19/12/2023 21:06

StupidStunts · 19/12/2023 21:02

OP has already explained that it wouldn't have been - it would have been quieter than normal. I cannot for the life of me understand why so many posters think they know better what OPs daughter could cope with that OP and school support staff who actually know the child. Ffs

Show quote history

So Christmas dinner day is quieter than normal? Well that would be an absolute first, you also have to consider that the child was not only in a new environment she also had the change with the PJ's as well as change of routine for lunch anyway so she would have been overwhelmed.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:07

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 18:05

It is no one's fault that your daughter behaves in a particular way to certain triggers.

Please don't start this narrative with your daughter that the minute a teacher doesn't do something exactly as she wants, they are responsible for how she feels and responds. That's unhelpful for everyone, including your daughter.

Teachers can't always control their classrooms to be 100% friendly for an autistic child. Expecting them to always be able to follow a specific plan, always be able to respond like x to a situation and so on is unreasonable and unrealistic. Teachers are humans. Sometimes we will speak a little too harshly, sometimes we will make a joke that will be taken the wrong way, sometimes we will misjudge a situation or forget that X doesn't like sitting next to Y. Have you ever taught? Do you understand how frenetic a teaching day is and how many students a teacher will see on any given day? You do have to have realistic expectations, here. We do our best but we can't provide a truly 1-1 service in our current schooling environment, and if you expect that, you will be disappointed.

Show quote history

There is a plan, if it's not followed there are consequences, yes. It's nothing to do with the teacher 'not doing something exactly as she wants'.

Yes, I have taught but some time ago. I understand teachers are human but there is no excuse for rudeness especially in a professional environment. That is part of the ethos of the school and why the students are exceptionally polite and well behaved.

I've not been disappointed with the school atall as they dealt with this so robustly. It wasn't something I would have mentioned as not knowing the teacher I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps there is a reason the headteacher didn't.

OP posts:
Happiestathome · 19/12/2023 21:09

Both my children are ND and I also work in a school. YANBU to feel disappointed your daughter missed the dinner, I would be for my children too. I’m also fiercely protective of them so I would also raise it to find out what happened as you have done. From the other side, please try to forgive the error. That teacher is seeing approx 150 kids a day if there are 5 lessons a day. As another poster explained, so much goes on at the start of a class, it can be extremely stressful. Hopefully this is a one off and they are actually a lovely teacher who had one bad moment. I’m sure they regret the impact on your daughter. They will also be spoken to by the headteacher and will no doubt be much more mindful in future. I hope your daughter is able to enjoy the remainder of the Christmas period

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 21:09

OP you're being completely ignorant to the realities of teaching. Perhaps time for you to have some understanding.

Twixandtinsel · 19/12/2023 21:13

It's not realistic for teachers to behave like a robot every day and meet every single need. It's just not, and whilst not ideal for sure, you have reacted disproportionately.

My DD struggles with the same type of things...yes there is a plan to minimise the upset to her but it's absolutely not realistic to make school an environment where nothing upsets her. You've already said you're generally happy with the school. Shit happens unfortunately, yes, focus on coaching your daughter through it rather than blaming a knackered teacher. She's going to have a hell of a shock after school if you have an expectation that nothing is ever going to happen in school that might throw her out.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:14

pinkdelight · 19/12/2023 18:07

My DS is autistic so I understand how hard it is. I also understand how stressful it is for teachers at the end of term with a new student to deal amidst the busyness. She shouldn't have snapped but people do, I'm sure you do, we all do. It sounds like the head is receptive and steps will be taken to avoid this in future. But it will happen and it will be hard, but as she deals with it, hopefully she'll realise she coped and her resilience will build up.

For now, rather than this teacher becoming the focus, it's more likely the bigger issue of starting a new school, which is incredibly tough for any kid, let along an 11yo with autism joining just before Christmas. It must be stressful for you and her and a Christmas lunch wouldn't have made all the difference, so try to keep it in perspective if possible. Hopefully a reset and fresh start in January will help. Good luck.

Yes, I do understand. Honestly, I don't snap at colleagues or patients as I think it's unprofessional. I didn't at students in the past, either. Of course, I have snapped at my partner before. And yes, she did so well today, it really shows her resilience.

Yes, I agree this teacher shouldn't become the focus and we are trying to move on. It is a big step for any DC moving to high school and obviously even more so for those with SEN and she has been making steps every day. But I have to admit I find it all very stressful! But just a half day tomorrow and then a good rest for students and teachers alike!

OP posts:
Jacfrost · 19/12/2023 21:15

Hercisback · 19/12/2023 21:09

OP you're being completely ignorant to the realities of teaching. Perhaps time for you to have some understanding.

And you're being completely ignorant to the realities of having a ND child. Perhaps time for you to have some understanding.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:17

Ladyj84 · 19/12/2023 18:08

Eh I'm really sorry but I come from an autistic family and the teacher did absolutely nothing wrong and stress can affect the dinner tantrum nothing to do with the teacher

Well, I'll trust the head teacher to know best about that. And I think my daughter and I know better what caused her meltdown than you.

OP posts:
MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 19/12/2023 21:18

I've not been disappointed with the school atall as they dealt with this so robustly. It wasn't something I would have mentioned as not knowing the teacher I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps there is a reason the headteacher didn't.
Excellent! She's been dealt with 'robustly' so hopefully she'll now get the hell out of teaching knowing how little she is valued or any understanding given to everything else she has to deal with. Get the pitchforks and bonfire ready!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:19

carolsandchristmas · 19/12/2023 18:08

If you're diagnosed autistic and you get up and go to school everyday and manage life. Then they already have a ton of resilience. The replies on here are absolutely disgusting.
Educate yourself on autism. Also, it's not a race to the bottom about whose child is more autistic and has it worse.

ASD is all rooted around anxiety. Find ways to manage the anxiety and then the person will hopefully have a successful day.
Do something that's not the norm and very unsettling and that can trigger them.

Compassion is key.

Thank you for explaining that. Some people don't seem to understand my DD has resilience in bucket loads! It really has nothing to do with resilience.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:20

EdgarsTale · 19/12/2023 18:09

Teachers are humans and therefore not perfect. Even SEN Pupils have to develop strategies to deal with issues like this. Life will be very hard for her if she gets upset so easily.

Well, luckily she doesn't get 'upset so easily'.

OP posts:
katepilar · 19/12/2023 21:20

Nothingbuttheglory · 19/12/2023 17:42

@Covidiokilledtheradiostar Can I ask what you think the teacher should have done differently?

It's not that unusual for subject teachers to have literally no notice, or just an email mid-morning, of a new starter.

not to snap?

Allthingsdecember · 19/12/2023 21:28

I’m so sorry that you’re getting such ignorant responses from some posters.

YANBU to be upset, or to be angry that the teacher failed to ensure that your daughter had the right accommodations in place to allow her to access education without undue distress.

It’s a real shame that the teacher’s actions had the knock on effect of preventing your daughter from being able to join in with her peers, and your feelings about it are completely valid. Please don’t listen to the people who have no understanding or empathy around neurodivergence.

AngelsandAliens · 19/12/2023 21:29

Wow the replies on this thread are shocking, just unsympathetic and harsh , clearly the people commenting know absolutely nothing about autistic children irrelevant of what age they are, . OP I hope your daughter is doing ok now.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:30

EnidSpyton · 19/12/2023 18:12

@Witsend101 I have a huge amount of empathy for the child. I know how overwhelming your average school is for an ND child and as a teacher I do my best every day to ensure they feel safe and supported.

What I don't appreciate is the mother seeking to blame her child's teacher for 'causing' a meltdown, when that is unfair and unnecessary.

Mainstream teachers get very little (if any) specific training on how to support autistic children. We get sent very long plans with recommendations and so on for each child on the SEN register, but in state schools, where you might have 6 or 7 per class on the register (and probably 7 classes), that's a huge amount of information to retain and act on every day. Expecting teachers in mainstream education to deliver SEN specific personalised teaching is therefore unrealistic. Yes, the teacher in this scenario snapped and has admitted they were in a bad mood. But they clearly didn't know that asking the OP's DD to wait while they worked out where she could sit would be a problem for a ND child. That's not the teacher's fault. It's the school's fault for not providing adequate training and support to the OP's daughter's teachers.

Unfortunately the push to get more children with high needs into mainstream education has not been supported with any additional budget for teacher training. Increasingly mainstream classroom teachers are being expected to deliver hugely differentiated, specialised support to children with severe SEN while also teaching the rest of the class, with no TAs and no training. It's not fair on anyone, and being berated by parents for making innocent mistakes certainly doesn't help.

All the other teachers have managed. She wasn't being asked to provide personalised teaching just be welcoming and polite. She didn't ask my DD anything! Just left her with no idea what to do. Being rude is not an 'innocent mistake'. Come on! And they have LSAs.

I'm certainly not suggesting the teacher meant to but yes they caused my DD to have a meltdown due to how unsettled and anxious they made her. As I've also said I did not raise this with the school, the school saw this as unacceptable behaviour and dealt with it.

OP posts:
MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 19/12/2023 21:32

How have they 'dealt with it'?

Hellenski · 19/12/2023 21:32

I feel sorry for the teacher who has been clearly undermined by the headteacher. Not appropriate. And yes I have an ASD child too. I accept he will encounter adults at school who may not 100% know how to cater to his needs every moment of the day.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 19/12/2023 21:36

Hellenski · 19/12/2023 21:32

I feel sorry for the teacher who has been clearly undermined by the headteacher. Not appropriate. And yes I have an ASD child too. I accept he will encounter adults at school who may not 100% know how to cater to his needs every moment of the day.

100% what a shit management.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/12/2023 21:38

MatJas · 19/12/2023 18:13

Sorry don’t have time to tag everyone but if u read the op she stated that the teacher “snapped” at her dd, my autistic dd has been through the same experience and it took her a long time to to back to that class, the people saying it’s not the teachers fault and they get blamed for everything, imo they get blamed when necessary, and they should know which students have certain additional needs and accommodate them.

Op I feel u, as asn parents we just want our children to have the same experiences as their peers and it can take a long time to build them up for things. It’s my ds’s 15th birthday today and she had a music prelim resit today, she couldn’t go as she had a meltdown before we left the house, I’m so sad it’s spoiled her birthday and feel so awful for her, big hugs to u and ur dd

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. Just sometimes we want them to have the nice things other DC enjoy. I hope DD is feeling better and sounds like she has a lovely mum.

OP posts:
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