To see a lot of couples in this situation

[Whatyoutryingtodo]

I see quite a few couples I know irl who've been together several years, engaged, own a house and have children, but no wedding plans made.
They've often been engaged for several years too but don't have any plans to get married, and say stuff like they'll 'get round to it at some point'.

Just curious as to why this happens quite a lot, not judging as I myself am unmarried and childless due to no interested suitors!

I think people will say that the man has everything he needs so why bother marrying her... Sometimes I wonder why people consider marriage more of a commitment than children? At least with marriage you can divorce, even if it's expensive and stressful, children you're tied for life.

I don't really have any comment to make about people becoming engaged (or not) and getting married (or not) however in the absence of marriage or CP there are risks even where Wills have been written and Pension beneficiaries arranged. It may be a small risk, but that doesn't mean NO risk, that a Will and Pension beneficiary can be changed at the stroke of a pen, just saying.....

Mondays are usually cheaper.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/births-marriages-and-deaths/ceremonies/marriage-and-civil-partnership-fees/
Under £200 inc all fees if you pick Monday morning.

@Dixiechickonhols thats more like it! Thank you, Monday morning even means we would save after travel costs!!

Our friends deliberately married Monday morning as it was cheapest and have just celebrated their silver wedding.

@Ap24 we will be fine in death.
Don't need to avoid paying tax to survive or get a bit more pension

I don’t actually know anyone doing this irl. Most of the people I know are university or higher educated with professional jobs partnered to similar people and they invariably follow the same pattern. They live together for a few years to give things a test run, then get married, then have children.

it’s a self-perpetuating cycle because the children are raised in a nice economic bubble and go on to do the same.

@Dixiechickonhols thats lovely to hear. Technically we’ve blown past the silver anniversary…. Just dotting the i etc for the pension entitlement hence doing it as cheap as poss. The romance is in daily life not this bit of legalese!!

Do you live in the suburbs? That’s a very death by marriage description
alternatively many people have kids prior to marriage, make a loose statement about getting married at sometime without setting a date
They cohabit and raise a family. No bubbles though, they don’t seem that myopic

I know plenty of non religious people to whom marriage is deeply significant and worthwhile!

I thibk on the question of why stay engaged for years.

Well what's the alternative? Get un-engaged? Announce to the world we don't plan on marrying anytime soon?

Does any coyple ever get un-engaged without it meaning they are breaking up? That would cause far more drama and talk than everyone just accepting well probably marry some day but not anytime soon.

The ‘marriage gap’ is a recognised thing though.
Higher earning couples are much more likely to marry.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-uneven-retreat-from-marriage-in-the-uk/

Child maintenance and a fair division of assets are two different things. The former is for ALL children - whether the result of marriage or a one-night stand. The latter protects the financially weaker spouse as well. Unmarried you're only entitled to maintenance. Even if generous, it still won't compare to marriage where you get both that, AND a share of assets, including things like your OH pension.

By all means, the children should be protected with stronger CM legislation (and I said this in an earlier post). But not grown adults. If you want to secure your future, marry (caveat for those it genuinely benefits). If you don't - your call. 'I don't want to' is an unacceptable reason and equally, if you don't' want to be strung along then leave, don't reproduce. It's as simple as that.

Because life is expensive.
Nursery bills being the biggest.
Once that's over. We'll get round to it. Until then, keeping DD clothed and fed with a roof over her head is more important.
We've discussed eloping but tbh, my parents would be pretty sad so we're just holding out.

How is it a double standard?

Whatever choice I make it’s a surname that is from a man whether it’s my DH, my father, or my mother’s maiden name which was my grandfather’s. I simply chose that of my husband’s because I like it and I love him. At the end of the day, it was my decision.

Yes, we do live on the suburbs. It’s quite nice out here.

you seem to be missing the economic success part of the formula.

statistically, the marriage patterns of the well-educated are part of what are allowing us to draw further and further away from the rest of society. That’s not a good thing. Other groups could be following the formula that has shown to provide economic stability and lower divorce rates, but they just don’t anymore. People shouldn’t marry just for the sake of marriage, you need to find a high quality partner, but if you have one, there is no reason not to create that economic unit and elevate your children’s future.

@CatMadam

The problem with having protections for people in the unmarried SAHP situation is that it would become an ever expanding elastic band.

• How long would a couple need to be together to qualify?
• Do they need to have children to qualify? What would happen if their child sadly died? Would they unqualify?
• Do they have to have joint finances? A joint account? Or are separate accounts okay?
• How would you distinguish between a romantic couple and a single parent with a lodger who warns to game the system?
• How would the protections be different to those of marriage/ cp?

And importantly, how do you resolve the issue where, like we are discussing in this thread, a partner doesn’t actually want to commit? For whatever reason that person feels trapped in a relationship but can’t end it and don’t want to marry because they don’t want the benefits. It’s too complicated!

Marriage is so much neater and simpler

Not missing any point you’re coming across like prissy suburbanite
Yes read your link, Interesting enough. I know multiple unmarried high earners, maybe it’s a London thing.

Getting engaged is essentially a social declaration that you’re in a committed relationship and I think its meaning has altered slightly in recent decades.

Thirty years ago, if a couple got engaged it was a “social signal” that they would be getting married in the near future. Yes, some ppl had longer engagements, but a lot got married within a couple of years.

Today, getting engaged tells society that you’re in a committed LTR, it doesn’t mean that you’ll ever get married.

That’s my take on it anyway.

I know so many 'long-term engaged' who not only never married but also split up that's coloured my view quite a bit. Also the 'shut up' ring. Of course, what I think is irrelevant to others, my only role is to smile and wish them well. And, there are others for whom marriage is a priority, just lower down the list as shared by several posters.

Personally I don't consider the 'engaged' more committed than those who aren't. If they have the same level of ties (kids, pets, property). Logically speaking it's the same effect. They can both walk out and marry other people in days if they wanted to, a married couple can't. You could argue however that people who have all those ties regardless of marital status are also less flexible... leading to 'married=commitment' being irrelevant anyway.

But then again, what does my opinion matter... I am not the government to give people rights based on 'commitment'. I suppose in matters of, say weddings it might affect things like 'no ring no bring' or whatever but that's not really relevant to me.

Statistically though the more you earn and more educated you are you are more likely to marry before having children.
The unmarried couples you know may have a civil partnership, doing that alongside other paperwork like wills, power of attorney is often done but no one needs to know about it.
Biggest take up if opposite sex civil partnership is couples over 50.

@Silverfoxlady

If you seriously believe that there are NO benefits to getting married, you are breathtakingly deluded. Don't get married by all means, but don't try and convince yourself - or anyone else that there are 'no benefits' to being married!

HTH.

benefits of getting married - Google Search

It's overall a weighing up of risks

The benefits to marriage are mostly on death.

The downfall sides of marriage are on divorce.

So it depends on your age and whether you think death or divorce is most likely to come first. In my case death seems 20-30 years time. But divorce isn't as predictable/reliant more on the inner workings of someone else's brain/desires.

So saving marriage until you are older (say 60) seems a safe bet. Particularly if you are the richer person. It doesn't impact me much if partner dies and leaves me say £500k and I have to pay sone iht oh that. I am still £400k up. (Plus my current assets)

If I marry and divorce I potentially lose 50% of my assets.

I know two couples who fit what you describe. In both cases, they have a house, a couple of kids, and very busy professional jobs. In both cases the impression I’m under is that neither particularly cares about being married, and they’ve got enough on their plate.

@Zone2NorthLondon

i get that you hate suburbanites, but I don’t understand what point you are trying to make?

do you not believe the statistics of marriage patterns? Do you think there is something wrong with prioritizing economic stability? Do you believe marriage as a means to launch successful children is an outdated concept?

Yes, we all have different experiences and perceptions. I assume that couples who decided to get engaged place some emotional value on being engaged, I.e., it’s meaningful to them personally. Other ppl don’t feel that way so they don’t bother. My cousin and his partner have been together for over 20 years without getting engaged. They’re no less committed then his brother and his wife, who’ve been together a similar time.
Ppl do what suits them.