To see a lot of couples in this situation

[Whatyoutryingtodo]

I see quite a few couples I know irl who've been together several years, engaged, own a house and have children, but no wedding plans made.
They've often been engaged for several years too but don't have any plans to get married, and say stuff like they'll 'get round to it at some point'.

Just curious as to why this happens quite a lot, not judging as I myself am unmarried and childless due to no interested suitors!

I think people will say that the man has everything he needs so why bother marrying her... Sometimes I wonder why people consider marriage more of a commitment than children? At least with marriage you can divorce, even if it's expensive and stressful, children you're tied for life.

There seems to be two themes on this thread. Reasons not to be married, all seems valid and reasonable, and reasons not to get married after getting engaged. Most saying other priorities.
So, those that not engaged but still not married. Did you think that by getting engaged you were going to be married in, say, 2 years or did you genuinely have no plans to be married, just engaged.
It would be interesting as to why you actually got engaged if you had no intention of planning to get married. I always thought you git engaged after agreeing to get married and it was that period before. 2 years max. But obviously not for another of people.

Or they just don’t want to get married?

I agree. Plenty of people want to live together without any legal ties for various valid reasons eg wanting to protect their finances for any children they don't share with their partner.

Plus of course the "opt in" system you mention already exist. That's what marriage/civil partnerships are.

They are indeed!

Basically, whatever system we have, some people will manage to fall foul of it. They won't opt in, or opt out, or go to the registry office. Because they don't know, or they don't get round to it. So it's a choice about which group to screw over for the benefit of others.

That still makes no sense. Nobody is being forced into anything, unlike what you're proposing to do with your 'legal protection for SAHM'.
I'm presuming this 'legal protection' involves a fair share of the assets accrued by the other party... which... wait for it.. marriage gives! Or even a civil partnership.

Why do we need new laws etc for that which already has a solution solely because you have some vague ideas of 'partnership'?

I do think there could be more legislation to protect parents, whatever else I think about the US they're far stricter with child maintenance. And, the system aside, our society could do far more to educate people, IMO info about marriage should be given out in maternity appointments. So many people still think for example common law gives them rights.

We could certainly make more effort with enforcement of child maintenance. You're not wrong there. I think that should exist separately to the legislative position about partners, though, because not all parents were in a relationship.

I got a ring because it's pretty, beautiful in fact. And I wanted the extra commitment at the time, something to show we love each other enough to get married - without actually wanting to get married!

I have no intentions to marry. Both of us have been on the fence all of the 15 years we've been (happily) together.

We've since had multiple children and both working up the career ladder. We plod along nicely with no need for marriage, it's very low on my list of priorities!

@SerenityNowInsanityLater this

@Snippysocks or maybe they don't feel the need to spend time and money on an outdated ceremony that means nothing to anyone that isn't deeply religious

@grayhairdontcare it doesn't have to cost a lot or be religious. I understand why some people would want it to cost a lot.

@crispynight unless the bride & groom are religious I honestly don't see the point.

OP asks a question not in any way relevant to him/her, there is no AIBU and then is never seen again. Shouldn't Mumsnet clamp down on posts that are so blatantly someone conducting research? Surely people have a right to know they are contributing to research and what their opinions are being used for?

@grayhairdontcare you are financially more protected.

@crispynight I’ve just priced up our local registry office - £400!!!!! Just for the bit of paper and an office for 10-15 minutes. That is a lot for some. Do they do last minute cancellation deals?

@crispynight I've never been married and I am extremely well financially protected.
We own everything 50 /50 . We have the same in death benefits for each othe.
The same wills. The same amounts in pensions.
I'm failing to see how a wedding would have made me more protected?

Nope. Anything you post on a public forum and be used by anyone. If you're so precious about how your 'opinions' are used - don't post.
Furthermore, debate about this can only be a good thing!

The issues here around isn't around the choices themselves it's about making informed decisions. All power to people like @grayhairdontcare who have thought about it, decided to remain unmarried and gotten the appropriate protections in place. But the PP who didn't know how far-ranging the benefits were, or think it's 'just a piece of paper' well this thread might educate them.

In 2023 there's no stigma (except among maybe uber-religious people) against living together and even having kids unmarried. So marriage isn't about the relationship between two people. It's about them declaring it to the State. Still, so much waffle about costing money, a big useless ceremony etc etc. That isn't its primary purpose!

I think it's more a shift in attitude caused by the decrease in probable 'security' from making life choices, of any kind, which can shift the existing precarious balances that many people now experience, moreso the majority of working and child-bearing age people now, although not explicity set within age boundaries. I'm 61 (unmarried) so I am qualified to notice the changes.

For about 20 or so years it was about women exerting their independence, now with seemingly pure equality (not so much in real time) as culture has yet to catch up, many women are running on fresh air, meanwhile many men are trying to find where they stand, with cultural expectations that mainly consider that they should 'provide'. Best intentions and all that...

Now, everyone's done up like a kipper so mostly all hands on deck, marriage probably seems an unnecessary and frivolous expenditure of time and money.

I think we need a much better system of child maintenance.

But otherwise, if you want legal protection you get married or enter into a civil partnership. You don't need to have an expensive wedding.

I’m very aware that I’m not articulating myself very clearly here, I’ve got some bastard virus that is just absolutely scrambling my brain! Anyway, in my opinion, as many people don’t wish to get married or enter into a civil partnership, some protection should be given to people who have children outside of those institutes - and not just stay at home parents! There’s also the matter of one person who doesn’t want to get married ‘stringing along’ the other, perhaps with a long engagement like op is discussing. It’s not as easy as telling people to get married, then they’ll be fine.

@grayhairdontcare many many women don't for various reasons.

But it IS that easy. We have laws that provide the sort of protection you are talking about, and they require registering the relationship via marriage or civil partnership.

Those who let themselves be "strung along" or who choose to have children without those protections .. well, tough luck. If you want the protection, take advantage of the protections that exist. If you want to wing it, wing it. But don't complain to me either way and don't come up with redundant laws that retroactively bail out people who were too obstinate to avail themselves of the law.

@grayhairdontcare there are benefits around capital gains, if you had a change in circumstances and one had to give up work you could transfer shares, rental properties etc tax free and make the most out of the tax free allowance and lower tax bands. Then after death you don't have to pay inheritance tax if you're married. And then some pensions continue to pay out to a spouse after death.

Weird lack of empathy there!

I don't think it's fear of commitment. We are engaged but we now have two children, and our priorities are different now than before we had kids. Our money goes towards saving for a house deposit, a big holiday and of course the extortionate childcare that comes with having DC/everyday things that crop up. We do still plan to get married and will probably do it in the next couple of years, tied in with a big holiday (to make it a wedding and honeymoon in one), and will now most likely only invite immediate family due to costs. We still want to have a special day and that's how we will choose to do so. Absolutely nothing wrong with a registry wedding but it's not what we want. And I don't feel risky because we're not married, I still work and we share children, like you said that's a bigger commitment than marriage