To see a lot of couples in this situation

[Whatyoutryingtodo]

I see quite a few couples I know irl who've been together several years, engaged, own a house and have children, but no wedding plans made.
They've often been engaged for several years too but don't have any plans to get married, and say stuff like they'll 'get round to it at some point'.

Just curious as to why this happens quite a lot, not judging as I myself am unmarried and childless due to no interested suitors!

I think people will say that the man has everything he needs so why bother marrying her... Sometimes I wonder why people consider marriage more of a commitment than children? At least with marriage you can divorce, even if it's expensive and stressful, children you're tied for life.

I think it's either they need to save up for the sort of wedding they want but that's hard with kids, or they are in a rocky patch, or she wants to lose her baby weight first and it's not happening

This is a little rude, I was literally asking a question about my situation - not stating that it wasn’t a good idea. This is a discussion group and if you were to read my other replies you would have seen I had several good replies that made me look into this with my partner.

Nor did I say it wasn’t for everyone, just for me. My sister is happily married for over 20 years, so it works for others.

That is an interesting study @Dixiechickonhols and echoes what I see in my own life - almost all of my friends from university got married before having children, while friends from school who didn’t go on to university were more likely to have children before getting married.

That's awful.

It's a bit depressing that so many posters here have children, but are putting off marriage because they want a big wedding! There's absolutely nothing wrong with remaining unmarried if that's what you really want - e.g. you don't want to merge your finances with your partner, because you have children from a previous relationship and don't want their inheritance to be protected. But if you (and your children) would actually benefit from the legal side of marriage (i.e. avoiding inheritance tax), I think it's best to be pragmatic. The wedding industry has really done a number on people! It's about signing a contract, not having a party.

It's a double standard because you're saying men get their own names and women don't.

The men you mention here presumably got their names the same way as you did, and weren't the first people to have them. So it's a double standard to say your husband, dad and granddad all have their own names but you and your mum don't. Either nobody has their own name unless they were the first one to have it, which is a vanishingly small number of people, or we all have our own names.

Marriage has become much less of a necessity for people overall due to the increase in gender equality and reduction in social stigma against being unwed parents. So only the people who truly want to get married bother, while others who aren't as fussed just don't bother with it.

There's also a lot of misunderstanding about the laws in this country, many people mistakenly believe common-law is a thing in British law, so they might think they have the legal rights and responsibilities of marriage when they have nothing of the sort.

Decline in religion, meaning less pressure to marry for that aspect.

I do find the endless engagement thing a bit of a farce though. To me, you get engaged when you are ready to be married, and a wedding should come no more than 1-2yr later barring life emergencies that take precedence. I'm afraid whenever I come across someone who has been engaged for 3+ years with no wedding date set I mentally recognise them as not being engaged. Once a date is set they're engaged though.

Also I think some people prefer being victims than take responsibility.

@hjytrjulykuyh when you say you don't recognise them as engaged, what does that mean?

You don't call their partner fiancé? But say boyfriend instead? Not include them in a new ring no bring wedding invite?

Beyond some nice glasses from his parents we didn't get anything on engagement from anyone (not that we wanted anything or expected). Looking at my Xmas cards some say son and daughter in law! My parents just say to 2 of you. Probably a poor selection of x and fiancé cards! (Like I only have a choice of 1 sister and sister in law card each year)

I actually find it weirder that people still think they should be getting married. And even weirder than that the way they have no real understanding of what it means and just look at it through rose tinted specs as some big romantic gesture.

In reality it’s simply contracting your life to another person. As a PP has said, if you are financially uneven (including your pension provision) then the better off party stands to lose a hell of a lot of what they worked for upon divorce. I’m in that situation now. I know DP would like to marry me but I have more to lose if it went wrong. I don’t believe he’d try to take anything from me but you just never know. It’s a huge risk.

In many instances the risks outweigh the small benefits of marriage. And some of those benefits can be managed by using wills.

To me, marriage IS a bigger deal than kids. With kids you already know you want to have them and will want them for life. If you split up it generally doesn’t matter. Just co-parent and move on.

Marriage is expensive to start with and can be devastating upon divorce. Entirely pointless and avoidable.

A friend of mine made the mistake of marrying a narcissist who is now making her life hell while she tries to organise their finances and divorce. If all she had was the kids she could simply walk out of his life with whatever she owned. Now she can’t.

Well I don't think getting engaged is a case of the man getting down on one knee anymore in my experience. It's usually more a 'conversation' these days 😂Most of my friends who are engaged had a chat about it and then went together and bought a ring and then said "oh, we're engaged!". Rather than it being a surprise

I'm on the fence with it, simply because of what happened to a woman who I work with.
She lived with her partner and their two kids in a jointly owned house.
He had an accident on his motorbike which left him with permanent brain damage and lacking capacity.
As she wasn't his wife, she had no legal jurisdiction over his treatment in hospital, his aftercare or his future. That fell to his mother legally.
His mother took over everything and completely pushed his partner out, she couldn't even access his bank account or money, whereas his mother could.
When he eventually left hospital, his mother chose to put him into a residential care home which specialised in head injuries, his partner wasn't even consulted.
She was awarded her son's share of the house sale, which had to be sold as his partner couldn't afford to buy alone.
Power of attorney was awarded to his mother rather than his partner.
So I can see it from both sides, but it's not something that would have been happy for my daughter's to do.

This is exactly it. Adding the protection for both spouse and child(ren) in the event of death. To me it seems short sighted to focus on holidays etc rather than considering the real implications when one party dies. But primarily yes if you are preparing for the failure of the relationship then there's a bigger issue at hand really.

"Why are women so happy to give up their surname? I get angry just thinking about it. It feels like wiping out my own family history, just because I would be getting married. To be ‘owned and labelled’ by someone."

For what it is worth,I took my ex husbands surname, and now I am divorced living with his two children.

Let me just say there is one reason and one reason only I consider my decision to take his surname was the right thing and is the over arching reason why I am still known with that surname today 9 years after he left.

That is because our two children who live with me 99% of the time have that surname. It avoids a millions questions (many rude if you consider them but people don't hesitate anyway) and there is no discussion around my relationship with my children by people who would never dream to even raise that with a nuclear family.

Having said that in light of how my ex husband left me I do sometimes resent it for me on a personal level, my passport is in my maiden name again and at some point when my kids have left home I will revert to my maiden name, but till then it makes sense. If I had my time again with a crystal ball on the future I might have put my foot down and insisted my kids had my surname not his but I didn't and if you read up on legal rights around having the fathers name on a birth certificate in the UK you will see the complications start there and you cannot easily reverse out of it after separation/divorce. That might be patriachy in action but you cannot blame individual women for that.

Ive got a friend in this position. She still works but pared her career & earnings back a lot to bear most of the childcare load. She & her partner talk about deferring having a wedding due to cost but in her shoes I'd be down the registry office like a shot. She's very vulnerable as he's paid for pretty much everything of their house.

There's also a lot of misunderstanding about the laws in this country, many people mistakenly believe common-law is a thing in British law, so they might think they have the legal rights and responsibilities of marriage when they have nothing of the sort.

This, so many people just haven't realised how vulnerable they are. Hordes of women mostly, engaged, often earning nearly as much as their partner but he pays the mortgage, and they pay food/bills/childcare. Then they are left penniless when he takes his house and walks away.

@mathanxiety

I really don't want to do that. It's not our kind of thing. I feel like to us the party bit and "big day" wouldn't feel as special if we had already got married a year beforehand. Also because photos would still be taken on the day of the registry office 😂

Oh dear. I'm actually embarrassed for you @grayhairdontcare

@FreshWinterMorning honestly there is no need to be.
I've never wanted or needed to be married and I've never been to a wedding that wasn't self centred, dull expensive bullshit .
But thanks for your concern

Marriage does NOT have to be expensive. Having a little registry office ceremony, and a pub lunch for you and your loved ones afterwards, would probably be cheaper than eloping too. (Also, does anyone actually 'elope' these days? Seems like something teenagers would have done half a century ago or more...)

I imagine it's largely because the stigma of being unmarried, especially with children is no longer as it used to be. I also imagine it just falls down to the bottom of the list when you have childcare fees, mortgages etc to pay for.

It also simply isn't a priority for some people. I don't think it's an issue at all, I just worry that far too many women make themselves vulnerable anyway by giving up their careers or going part time when they have children but without marriage, they are incredibly vulnerable.

Well you SHOULD be embarrassed for saying marriage is 'an outdated ceremony that means nothing.' It is anything BUT that. Marriage gives legal protection to both parties, and brings a LOT of privileges and advantages. You are also taken more seriously as a couple by everyone - including the law!

And calling peoples weddings 'self centred, dull, expensive bullshit!' WTAF?

You are coming across as very bitter in your posts .. I do wonder why..

@FreshWinterMorning it is outdated and it literally means nothing!
You can have sex, children, buy a house get educated, fall in love and be financially stable without getting married.
Times have changed.
People have choices.
My relationship has lasted longer than most peoples marriages.
I'm not bitter about not being married. I have been asked and refused.
It literally means nothing in the modern world.

@FreshWinterMorning I don't need a marriage certificate to be financially stable.
I am financially stable

Also @FreshWinterMorning you could do everything as equals and not need the legal protection of marriage because you didn't give up your earning power!