To see a lot of couples in this situation

[Whatyoutryingtodo]

I see quite a few couples I know irl who've been together several years, engaged, own a house and have children, but no wedding plans made.
They've often been engaged for several years too but don't have any plans to get married, and say stuff like they'll 'get round to it at some point'.

Just curious as to why this happens quite a lot, not judging as I myself am unmarried and childless due to no interested suitors!

I think people will say that the man has everything he needs so why bother marrying her... Sometimes I wonder why people consider marriage more of a commitment than children? At least with marriage you can divorce, even if it's expensive and stressful, children you're tied for life.

I find it weird too, I'm engaged but didn't announce it until we set the date (less than a year from when he asked me)

Children are expensive. Weddings are expensive. I am married and had children after marriage. But for people who have children without being married or children and engagement, there's a biological clock on having children...there's not on getting married. There are many couples who would rather spend the approx £20k it would cost for a wedding on a home and a child rather than essentially just a party that can wait. There's no stigma on having children out of wedlock anymore so it makes perfect sense!

Yes, that is not a sensible take.

The question isn't whether marriage adds anything. It does, it's a legal contract. It's whether you want the things it adds or not.

But if you feel like that about marriage why did you get engaged?
Thats the question here.
Lots of people are anti marriage for a variety of reasons. No problem at all understanding that.
But being anti marriage and engaged I don’t understand.

I wouldn’t personally get engaged.

But engagement doesn’t have to mean marriage. It can just be a way of two people publicly expressing their love
for each other and a great excuse to celebrate their love with a party.

I think we should encourage people to have parties to celebrate their love without needing engagement or marriage, but people would look at you funny if you send out an invitation for that.

In short, we met at 34/35 and by the time we were sure this was the one for both of us, we were 36/37 and trying for a baby had to be the first priority. It took 20 months, finally happened in spring 2020 when weddings were banned, and by the time I gave birth in early 21 there was no time in our lives to even think about planning a wedding. Babies and young children have a way of taking up every spare second! Then I went back to work as a teacher and realised I would never again have any spare time when the first thing I wanted to do was phone around venues and dick about with who sits where.
Then we both realised we’d like two children if we possibly could, before it was too late. Number 2 took 3 miscarriages and a year longer than we hoped, but she’s on her way just after Christmas. I don’t kid myself that planning a wedding with two children is going to appeal any more than with one!!
Also, I’m not going to lie, I went through so much when I was younger with middle-class boys (aged anything up to 35) who either had the emotional range of a brick or who simply had to ‘find themselves’ by going on their holidays travelling, changing job, going back on their holidays travelling again, and having deep personal philosophical crises that had ‘nothing to do with me, I was the most amazing thing that had ever happened to them’ but still led to me being dumped. I believed there was something fundamentally wrong with me because I didn’t have a ring on my finger. Now I’ve had years of being single and rather happy with it, followed by a relationship that was a genuine choice, which happened to lead to commitment and kids, plus the realisation that the single life would have been an equally fulfilling one in its own way, it gives me great pleasure to honestly say I am in no hurry to get married! It winds up the busybody traditionalists in my life no end, and it’s a lovely little finger-flick to the pain of my past and the outdated messages that young women still get fed.
We’ve made sure finances are not going to leave either of us destitute if we split, and we’re mature enough to know that could happen to anyone, and have enough sense that we’d be decent, calm co-parents even if the split was horrible.
When we do get married, we’ll have moved to our final destination, our youngest will be sensible enough not to shout out ‘I want a snack!’ while we’re doing our vows, and I’ll probably look like Miss Havisham in my wedding dress but we’ll save a fortune on all the bullshit that people put in their wedding because they’re 31 and feel they have to keep up with the Joneses on social media.
We are ecstatically happy about all of this.

I knew a couple who got married because it was cheap (this was about twenty years ago). They were expecting a baby and weren’t at all into marriage, but wanted to make sure that they were legally set up. So they went to a solicitor and got an estimate for doing wills (so they would inherit from each other), signing things to say that they were each other’s next of kin, and making sure that he would have parental responsibility after their child was born (I think the law has changed, but back then as a father not married to the mother, he’d wouldn’t have automatically counted as a legal guardian, even though they were living together and he’d be named on the birth certificate). The estimate came back as something like £800. Or they could achieve all of that by getting married, at a cost of about £80. No brainer really.

I find it bizarre when people have been together 10 years, have multiple children and had a 200k mortgage together for the last 8 years then he proposes and social media goes crazy and they spend X amount on an engagement party and the guests spend XX back in gifts. Why?! How did you not see this coming, why the massive OTT reaction when your lives were already massively committed to each other in much larger ways.

Having lost a beloved child 3 yrs ago, perhaps you don't understand the bond between parent and child. I feel sick at your post.😰

Nobody expects to split but sometimes life just happens.

Nothing is wrong to plan for worse and hope for the best. :)😀

Maybe if archaic "marriage" laws changed more people would be willing to legally marry.

I think if pre nups we're legally enforced more people would marry

Obviously they would need to be fair and both parties properly legally advised beforehand. And caveats if children are involved.

But not being allowed to ring fence any inheritance /pre marriage assets that is totally outside the marriage seems wrong. Different to money earned together during the marriage which should be shared, but if I start the marriage with £500k I don't see why they should be able to have 50% if we split a year later (and yes probably in that case they wouldn't get 50% but you don't know what the judge on the day would decide)

You sound a bit resentful and angry. Not ‘ecstatically happy’. All that talk of middle-class boyfriends and people with bullshit weddings and busybody traditionalists. If you have such a chip on your shoulder about your past and traditions, why get married at all?

Plenty of people get married in their thirties, have normal weddings they can afford and good marriages. I am sorry that didn’t happen to you. You sound so angry still.

My long term boyfriend and I have been ‘engaged’ for 11 years with no plans to change it.
We got engaged on our 2nd anniversary, we’d gone to a hotel for the weekend and got absolutely trollied and I was saying that as it was a leap year, I would like it if he would tell me in advance if he didn’t want to marry me (to avoid blushes).
he said that he wanted to bring a ring for me that weekend but didn’t know what to pick and so could we pick one together.
I was ecstatic thinking we were going to get married in the next few years even though he hadn’t asked me to marry him.

So we got engaged & had a party that everyone enjoyed.
We have 2 DC (9 & 5) and are committed to each other.

He’s been extremely supportive of me when my hormones were off the scale last year (thankfully hrt sorted me right out).

He has a lazy work ethic but he’s a good partner and great dad.

I’m happy not to marry although I would be happy to marry also. I know he loves me and fancies me so I see it as I have a lot more than some.
We don’t argue or call each other names and I think are good role models for our children.

To be honest you're not really engaged at all.

Tbf I've never actually seen that happen. When a couple gets engaged after years together and kids/house etc., the general response is an 'oh that's nice' if that, no getting hyped up or hysterical over it. Most common response I've seen is 'about bloody time' which always feels a bit mean as you can tell the woman would have wanted it years prior but was kept dangling for years while gestating her boyfriend's child/ren.

@Krneki Maybe if archaic "marriage" laws changed more people would be willing to legally marry.

What changes to the laws on marriage would you like to see?

For example that not everything is split 50/50, only the assets that were acquired together during the marriage.
That pensions are excluded etc.

As far as I know everything is split 50/50 during the divorce. I.e. if I had an asset from before the marriage I'd loose half of it during divorce. Same with inheritance etc.

When I divorced there were no significant assets to split, so it didn’t arise. But my understanding from reading on mumsnet is that 50/50 is a starting point, not the inevitable outcome. Length of marriage is a factor in deciding how assets are divided, as is who brought what to the table.

Not sure what you mean about inheritance? If someone dies intestate, then their legal spouse is entitled to some of the estate. If that’s not what you want, make a will. Same applies if you DO want them to have something and you’re not married.

There ARE ways of ring fencing inheritances that you got before marriage as well as property. You just need to make the legal steps.

Which means extra work and costs and even more money for solicitors

From what I'm seeing/hearing it's 5050 up here in Scotland across full estate.

With inheritance I mean that either partner inherit something during their marriage that goes into the divorce estate.

I know you can go around this with trusts etc. but that extra work and much more costs.

Fried of mine down in London, got a divorce after few years; she got half even though she didn't bring anything into the marriage.
He was in love so be was supporting/financing her education and on the end he lost half of his estate...

Extra work to protect your assets ? I don't understand that frame of mind. The cost will be recouped in the long run.

The conversation started how the law should be changed with my hypothesis that this is stopping people getting married.

Not getting married saves a lot of money 💰 and time 😜

Putting all your assets in trusts would generally mean you Cabo access then either. So not very practical.

Five if you have tons of assets and can put some aside and not use them. But that's one for the mega rich.

Given how little many people seem to know about the legal differences between marriage and cohabitation, I’d need persuading that that is a significant reason for many to avoid marriage.