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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What are reasonable overnight arrangements with 175 miles of distance?

120 replies

CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 08:58

Both parents work full time Mon- Fri. Child is 5. Third party needed for handovers due to history of abuse so father would have to drive to collect and mother would have a friend facilitate. Child lives with mother (me) and courts want to work towards overnights at father's house 175 miles away. Any advice on what would seem reasonable? I don't want this to happen due to what I feel are risks to the child however I'm being forced to come up with a plan. And I need to make suggestions or the judge will just decide. No money for legal advice and have no idea what is reasonable. Any suggestions?

OP posts:
CeeceeBloomingdale · 16/12/2023 09:16

I think the only reasonable option is you doing half the journey then using a contact centre for the hand over. A third party cannot be bound to do this duty indefinitely and you need to be protected.

Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:17

SadlyACupOfTeaDoesNotSolveEverything · 16/12/2023 09:15

Ah x post.. 1-3hrs every other week.
You say friends doing handover? Is contact happening in your home area?

Sorry I completely missed that handovers are currently being done at a contact centre. The confusion about friends doing handovers is probably my fault! Apologies.

OP posts:
escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:17

where is the handover centre?

Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:18

escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:16

so currently he comes to your home town?

Show quote history

He does yes

OP posts:
Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:18

escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:17

where is the handover centre?

Near my house

OP posts:
MeMySonAnd1 · 16/12/2023 09:21

You are a victim of a crime and that is acknowledged.

I don’t think you need to do ANYTHING more than you already do as any usual solutions to this kind of issue will put you at risk.

If overnight contact is wanted, insist that he picks up and returns to friend.

Check if you qualify for legal aid. You need that legal advice to protect your child. If you have been supported by any organisation that supports victims of domestic abuse, give them a ring, they can provide you with some guidance and hold your hand during the process. If you haven’t, try to find one of these organisations local to you.

Rosebud21 · 16/12/2023 09:21

This sounds like a stressful process layered on a very traumatic past. You may get good advice in the Facebook group Legal Advice Needed UK

https://www.facebook.com/groups/693909274035426/?ref=share

https://www.childrenscontactservices.com/what-we-do/handover-services/

Log in or sign up to view

See posts, photos and more on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/693909274035426?ref=share

Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:22

Overnights don't need to be now. They need to be accounted for aka what will happen in the future so we don't end up back in court. He's not ready for overnights currently and the court acknowledges that. So unless I gey mu Crystal ball out I have no idea what to suggest. Its so difficult and there needs to be reasoning behind what I suggest. When in reality it should be, when he's ready, which is too open ended.

OP posts:
PuttingDownRoots · 16/12/2023 09:22

Surely then the length of time will increase, and it will be up to the father to make arrangements what happens overnight like a hotel, caravan park etc for now. Then in school holidays a longer period time in the fathers home town.

Nicole1111 · 16/12/2023 09:22

Suggest he has contact during school holidays. Work out a reasonable split of them with yourself. Make sure your child has time after returning from their dads to rest before returning to school (for example not getting home late the day before school). He will collect the child from your friend and return them.

geckofrog · 16/12/2023 09:23

CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:11

It's OK but there has been intimidation towards me on his part. Son enjoys it. They've only been seeing each other for 1-3 hours, once ever other week for a short while. They've met each other about 15 times. They don't want overnights now but they want us out of court and somehow want us to predict when he's going to be ready.

Show quote history

If they have only ever met 15 times this needs to be a long plan. Your child isn't going to be ready for overnights. I think the plan of building up to a whole day contact every other weekend is a good one then once getting to secondary using a train.

fruitbrewhaha · 16/12/2023 09:24

Could you suggest he has to find a place he can rent overnight near to you? Therefore continue using the contact centre, collects
on a Saturday and drops back Sunday.

He’ll have to get an Airbnb or caravan.

Onceuponaheartache · 16/12/2023 09:25

Working towards doesn't mean they expect you to hand your sin over next time for an overnight!

They want you to show you are willing to work uo to more contact.

Proposals generally involve a paced approach of small increases of time spent together. So if as you say the current order is 2 hours every other week I would begin by proposing that this increases to 4 hours every other week and increase by 1 hour over a period of say 6 months until it builds to a full day on a Saturday.

Your next step is that son comes home over night and his dad has him again on the second day until day lunchtime again building it up slowly to him staying overnight someehwre local to your sons primary residence within a year.

Once overnight is established it can then be built on so that it then becomes 2 nights during a school holiday l, locally to primary residence until such a time as your son is confident at being away from you.

Your reasoning always needs to be that his man is still a virtual stranger and you are concerned that there is a risk to you via contact.

Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:26

PuttingDownRoots · 16/12/2023 09:22

Surely then the length of time will increase, and it will be up to the father to make arrangements what happens overnight like a hotel, caravan park etc for now. Then in school holidays a longer period time in the fathers home town.

Yes there has been talk of him having two days here, staying overnight and returning child to me initially, then potentially overnights with dad if child wishes. I'm worried about the holidays being a significant chunk of time as his dad works and only gets 4 weeks of leave so he would be palmed off onto someone he doesn't know, whereas I work from home and have a flexible job so that's never an issue. I just don't want it to become traumatic.

OP posts:
escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:27

ok so

currently he travels 175 miles to the contact centre every other weekend for 1-3 hours

the courts want a plan for overnights in the future

you are concerned about the distance involved

so - say that whilst you don’t rule out overnights in the future, it is very difficult to draft any sort of plan without more discussion around the logistics of the huge distance between the two of you and balancing that with the need for a third party

escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:28

I'm worried about the holidays being a significant chunk of time as his dad works and only gets 4 weeks of leave so he would be palmed off onto someone he doesn't know, whereas I work from home and have a flexible job so that's never an issue.

irrelevant i am afraid

Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:29

escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:27

ok so

currently he travels 175 miles to the contact centre every other weekend for 1-3 hours

the courts want a plan for overnights in the future

you are concerned about the distance involved

so - say that whilst you don’t rule out overnights in the future, it is very difficult to draft any sort of plan without more discussion around the logistics of the huge distance between the two of you and balancing that with the need for a third party

I can't just walk into court and say that though, they're giving us the time for discussion now and want a plan. The judge was explicit that she wants a plan that will take us to overnights and she wants to know when that will happen. It's so hard because I can't predict that. Even cafcass have said they don't know what to suggest and need advice.

OP posts:
Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:30

escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:28

I'm worried about the holidays being a significant chunk of time as his dad works and only gets 4 weeks of leave so he would be palmed off onto someone he doesn't know, whereas I work from home and have a flexible job so that's never an issue.

irrelevant i am afraid

According to cafcass it isn't and he will need to ensure he's not left with anyone he doesn't know well for significant portions of the contact.

OP posts:
TiptoeTess · 16/12/2023 09:31

God, this feels appalling. Who on earth thinks an abusive man is a good role model for a child?? I despair.

OP, I think I would suggest that contact continues via your local contact centre as it currently is for another year, ie a few hours, then progresses to a full day via the contact centre (still local to you) next year, then an overnight facilitated by the contact centre (still local to you) the following year and then to two nights during school holidays the following year BUT still facilitated by the local contact centre (ie he still has to do the 175 miles each way.)

I would argue this on the basis that due to the abusive history it will be important for your son’s contact to continue to be facilitated by somewhere familiar to him. Say how strongly you feel that this adds risk and so your compromise is by going along with it at all. Don’t offer midway; make them force you out f it comes to it. I have no idea what’s reasonable or what they’re likely to agree but do not make it any easier for him than you have to!

I’m hoping at some point during that time your ex basically gets sick of doing the miles and drops out tbh.

Doggymummar · 16/12/2023 09:33

Surely the contact centre continues, but the time get longer, by say 15 mins a week until it's built up to a full day where he is trusted to take him out the contract centre and return him back, for say six months. Then he could collect him and take him to his house for an overnight and drop back at the centre say 5pm the next day, it drop him at school for the correct time if it's a school day. No need for you to be involved at all. You say you moved back to you home area so a family member can facilitate.

If your child doesn't want or like this arrangement make sure he knows he can tell you

Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:34

TiptoeTess · 16/12/2023 09:31

God, this feels appalling. Who on earth thinks an abusive man is a good role model for a child?? I despair.

OP, I think I would suggest that contact continues via your local contact centre as it currently is for another year, ie a few hours, then progresses to a full day via the contact centre (still local to you) next year, then an overnight facilitated by the contact centre (still local to you) the following year and then to two nights during school holidays the following year BUT still facilitated by the local contact centre (ie he still has to do the 175 miles each way.)

I would argue this on the basis that due to the abusive history it will be important for your son’s contact to continue to be facilitated by somewhere familiar to him. Say how strongly you feel that this adds risk and so your compromise is by going along with it at all. Don’t offer midway; make them force you out f it comes to it. I have no idea what’s reasonable or what they’re likely to agree but do not make it any easier for him than you have to!

I’m hoping at some point during that time your ex basically gets sick of doing the miles and drops out tbh.

It's been very difficult. I have done everything the courts have asked me to so far. They are increasing contact from 2 hours to 8 hours over two months so that bit is already decided. It's just the overnights (or lack of) that the judge wasn't happy with.

OP posts:
Original poster
CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:35

Doggymummar · 16/12/2023 09:33

Surely the contact centre continues, but the time get longer, by say 15 mins a week until it's built up to a full day where he is trusted to take him out the contract centre and return him back, for say six months. Then he could collect him and take him to his house for an overnight and drop back at the centre say 5pm the next day, it drop him at school for the correct time if it's a school day. No need for you to be involved at all. You say you moved back to you home area so a family member can facilitate.

If your child doesn't want or like this arrangement make sure he knows he can tell you

It seems like madness to drive a child 4 hours in one direction, for one overnight, then 4 hours back the next day. But if that's what people do then I can't really argue it.

OP posts:
escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:35

CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:29

I can't just walk into court and say that though, they're giving us the time for discussion now and want a plan. The judge was explicit that she wants a plan that will take us to overnights and she wants to know when that will happen. It's so hard because I can't predict that. Even cafcass have said they don't know what to suggest and need advice.

Show quote history

in that case - make your plan on the basis of him continuing to do what he’s done multiple times for a few hours…. he travels to your hometown where a third party will be present to do the handover. Your child then stays the weekend with him every other weekend. And he returns him to your to the third party.

You will have to compromise but use that as your starting line.

geckofrog · 16/12/2023 09:36

You can specify that if dad is unable to look after your child you are given first refusal for them to be with you

escapethemaze · 16/12/2023 09:36

CandyFluff99 · 16/12/2023 09:30

According to cafcass it isn't and he will need to ensure he's not left with anyone he doesn't know well for significant portions of the contact.

Show quote history

Easily done

added to which that holiday allowance is what most single parents have.

Trust me - that won’t loom large on courts radar