To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

No It doesn't matter what I mean. Men have set out their own purpose. Meanwhile us women are arguing whether a 3 year old having two dresses presented to them is a tragedy!

👌

I'm with your SIL

If you're not capable or willing to branch out beyond stereotypes for your DD at least someone else will.

I'm interested, fair enough if you don't wish to elaborate.

I have my own purpose, several actually.

@SouthLondonMum22

Plenty of women actually enjoy and actively want to be an SAHM, even educated working professionals. Heck, some detest going back to work in the early years, but feel they have no choice. This isn’t fair on them. Why not appreciate that some women have a positive experience of staying home, it’s not always be all or end all. If that makes someone not a feminist, then so be it. Childcare/homemaking is also of value.

She's annoying. She's crossing the line. I'm sure all the sis in law lovers on here would feel the same if they were constantly undermining their parenting. My girls liked dressing up and playing with cars, climbing trees etc. My middle daughter campaigned for girls to be able to play basket ball at her high school as it was always a male sport. She got the rules changed for the girls then decided she preferred horse riding. She can be the cool fun aunt but she's really over the top and needs to reign it in.

She sounds annoying.

It contributes to inequality so it can't be a feminist choice. How can it be when it largely makes women financially vulnerable and supports problematic gender stereotypes?

I'm sorry but what you seem to be saying here is men and the patriarchy have decided what work counts as work and is valued. So women must now opt for the work outside the home choice (and lets all recognise that only some work really matters here - high paying stuff)

I don't accept that. I worked outside the home all my life and went back to work when my kids were 12 weeks old. I'd be crucified here on MN for that but that was how it worked where I lived. I understand completely how much care an infant needs because I paid for it.

Staying home to mind your infant/toddler/child is absolutely a feminist choice. Seeing it as a devalued choice is absolutely a patriarchal choice - if women do it it must be worthless.

Of course some women enjoy it and want to be SAHM's, I've never said otherwise.

@nhd

I don’t think you need to justify yourself at all. You don’t even need to actively encourage your daughter to play football, just to prove a point. She’s literally 3, I don’t know why posters are dying, saying that she’s going to be a girlie girl, or whatever. And even if she does, what’s the problem, if that’s how she feels comfortable. Trying to force a child to go against stereotypes, just to prove a point, is harmful. SIL is doing too much to push her own beliefs.

Exactly this! ...

I'm sorry but what you seem to be saying here is men and the patriarchy have decided what work counts as work and is valued.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that it promotes harmful stereotypes that women = childcare/cook/cleaner and men = provider with ''big job'' when equality would promote men and women doing both.

I'm saying that it promotes inequality because someone relying on someone else financially can never be equality.

I'm saying that childcare should be valued by both males and females alike.

But I’ve noticed that you keep reinforcing how it’s problematic with regards to gender roles, and inequality etc, as though it always has to be a bad choice. Some couples may prefer a traditional set up, if it suits their family well. Yes, their careers may be paused, but this isn’t an issue, if women would prefer to do the childcare in that time. It gives them the opportunity to do childcare, without the additional stress of work.

Of course it's problematic. traditional gender roles are largely based on sexism and inequality.

Just because some couples may prefer it, it doesn't make any of the issues non existent.

She sounds great. Think of it as a positive that your DD has such an open minded and supportive auntie. Just let her crack on and you do your thing.

Me too

Would you say the same if SIL was a MIL?

Do you know what's also sexist ... Women having to give birth and then returning to work because SMP isn't cutting it.

Why can't we fight for women having more flexible work where available. Or women being able to pay into a non-taxable saving ISA prior to going on maternity leave. Maybe even longer maternity leave? ... I'm sure there are smarter people who can think of ways to make life easier for women. Making me do what a man wants to do isn't helpful and it's not equality.

I'm not saying women should or shouldn't work. I am saying that women should have the choice and that it shouldn't be hard for women to return to work.

I'm going to stop now as this thread is getting derailed.

I'm on the fence on this one!

I don't think your SILs views are extreme at all. However, I don't think we need to worry too much about these issues with a 3 year old. Baking, make up etc - she probably sees as fun - I remember I did as a young child - loved watching my mum do her make-up and getting dressed up. And as an adult in no way feel like I need to put make up on for my husband, to look pretty etc...I do it because I enjoy it!

However, it doesn't seem like you really want to listen to any other views, as you seem to have an answer to all of the replies you've been given by posters who agree with SIL. But, if you're not happy with SILs comments, just tell her in a nice way, I'm sure she'll understand.

This 🩷

I actually agree with some of that. Though I think everyone should be able to have more flexible work where available because we need to be saying that childcare is the responsibility of both parents and both parents need to be considering flexible work where available, not just women. This would also help with equality in the workplace.

I'd also give fathers a longer paternity leave because 2 weeks isn't enough.

Again, OP has an engineering degree

a three year old doesn’t know about having an engineering degree. It’s not like she’s witnessing mum doing engineering. It’s not going to help countering any gender conditioning at all.

You've missed my point entirely.

OP is highly unlikely to be bringing up her child with traditional gender expectations when she herself bucked the trend to such a degree. So I don't see why her SIL and so many posters on this thread think that she needs her sister to show her the way.

Somewhat heteronormative.

I wonder what problematic gender stereotypes my wife and I are enforcing… she does wear trousers more often than me.

Yeah, no. Absolutely the fuck not. I would have fully shut this crap down the moment she tried to control and manipulate my daughter’s interests and behaviour. Like fuck would I let her make my daughter feel like she was wrong for liking dresses or baking or whatever. And she wouldn’t dare to undermine me about wearing dirty pyjamas in public either because she would have been put in her place at the first sign of overstepping.

I consider this garbage a form of misogyny. It is no better than disparaging women for going into STEM or pursuing graduate degrees or whatever. Women can choose to like and do whatever they want, whether it be makeup or working on cars. If she wants to shape and manipulate a child so badly she can have her own. And I say this as a woman who was raised in a family where my intellect and academic achievements trumped everything, who has four advanced degrees but was never allowed to just be a girl or a woman because that was subtly less-than. Who was made to feel as if things like fashion were beneath me and that I couldn’t “lower myself” to be interested in them. Don’t allow this woman to do that to her.

I think you should have a word with her, but also that you should stop any kind of sleep overs/babysitting or anything else that lets her be alone with your daughter. I just wouldn’t trust her to be honest.