Ex keeps saying he doesn't want to see ds

hiddy · 2023-12-12T23:31:51+00:00

Long back story of abuse. He has seen ds a handful of times since early September. He is like a toddler having a tantrum when he doesn't get his way and he says the most ridiculous things without thinking. I know from experience there is no stopping him when he's in this mood. 3 times now since October he has sent me emails saying he doesnt want to see ds. I thought we were getting somewhere and he saw ds for the first time the other day in ages. Now he's kicked off again with me and sent me another email to say he doesn't want to see him. It's because of me - he can't cope with how I treat him which is grey rock. What do I do? He's 100% going to come back and want contact again. I can't keep doing this. It's not fair on ds (he is just 6). Ds is unaware of what his dad is saying obviously. But he has no idea when he is seeing his dad again and neither do I. Hes never going to change.

MiddleagedBeachbum · 12/12/2023 23:34

I’d send a written schedule of meeting dates and times.
he has 2 chances.
If he doesn’t show up he doesn’t get to see him. I’d stop all contact.
such a hard situation for you
id document everything to show your son one day.

MiddleagedBeachbum · 12/12/2023 23:35

If it was ever needed! As ex will portray a different story and for court purposes.

NightmareGirl · 12/12/2023 23:39

Does he have drug problems ?

PTSDBarbiegirl · 12/12/2023 23:42

Not good enough, explain the outcome if he continues to cause emotional harm to your child. One strike and he's out and really your DS will be fine, probably better off. Might force ex to grow up and interact differently but until that happens he needs to know your boundary and obv you have to enforce that for DS. Your ex is responsible for his part in damaging his relationship with your DS.

Reugny · 12/12/2023 23:50

MiddleagedBeachbum · 12/12/2023 23:34

I’d send a written schedule of meeting dates and times.
he has 2 chances.
If he doesn’t show up he doesn’t get to see him. I’d stop all contact.
such a hard situation for you
id document everything to show your son one day.

It's already documented as it's done by email.

All the OP needs to do is save the emails.

EverybodyLTB · 13/12/2023 00:19

Grey rocking is setting a boundary, and shitty toxic people cannot stand their victims to exercise any control over themselves or their lives. That’s why he’s having a tantrum, he wants you to lower that boundary for him. If it’s clear to him that your son having a relationship with his father means a lot to YOU, then he will tease at not doing this to push at your boundaries and bring you back under control.

WandaWonder · 13/12/2023 00:24

You can't force it and if he is that abusive why would you want him too?, what do your court orders say

Original poster

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:08

Thanks for all the responses. We don't have a court order. I very much doubt he would take me to court for access. He used to say he would do this all the time with his other son but he never did.

He doesn't have a drug problem but he is a gambling addict. He also has a new girlfriend so I know she is taking up all of his time.

I'm pretty certain ds is just baggage in his life that he doesn't need. He will blame me for not letting him see ds when really it is all down to him. His choice.

I just don't know what to do if he comes back and asks to see him. He can't walk all over me and especially not play mind games with ds.

I have everything documented in email. However this is only when he is having a tantrum. He will usually come back and apologise but now he is a new partner, it may be different.

I'm starting to divorce him too so it's all very uncertain but ds is my priority in this.

OP posts:

LadyDanburysHat · 13/12/2023 12:14

As others have said. Save those emails. Give him one more chance to show up regularly for his son. Spell out to him that you will not allow it to continue.

By the sounds of it he only wants to see him to mess with you, but because you grey rock he is not getting the reaction he wants, so throws his toys out of the pram.

Original poster

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:15

EverybodyLTB · 13/12/2023 00:19

Grey rocking is setting a boundary, and shitty toxic people cannot stand their victims to exercise any control over themselves or their lives. That’s why he’s having a tantrum, he wants you to lower that boundary for him. If it’s clear to him that your son having a relationship with his father means a lot to YOU, then he will tease at not doing this to push at your boundaries and bring you back under control.

This is exactly it.

When he got in touch, he told me the context he wanted and I agreed though made it clear I wasn't sure about the other night stay. This is due to ds and toileting issues which ex understood and had no issues with.

I have it in a text message of the day he wanted ds next. I told him we had plans on one of those days and he said that was fine - no problem, he wouldn't have him.

Then when I reminded him about it, he kicked off and claimed I never told him about it which I did. He then told me to 'fuck off' and to 'forget it, I won't bother with him at all'

It breaks my heart for ds.

The whole reason for this tantrum is that I don't show him any emotion. I don't speak to him unless I need too. For example on a FaceTime, he will try speak to me. I am polite (as ds is there) but then move the conversation back over to ds. I don't need to speak to him but he can't stand it.

OP posts:

OldTinHat · 13/12/2023 12:19

You can't do anything. You can't force another person to do a single thing they don't want to.

Just smile and wave, keep the emails, never slag off your ex to your DC.

This is from someone whose XH said he wouldn't be seeing the DC anymore because 'it doesn't suit'. They were 4 and 5. They've never seen him again since and it made life a hell of a lot less complicated tbh. Dc are in their 20s now.

Original poster

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:22

OldTinHat · 13/12/2023 12:19

You can't do anything. You can't force another person to do a single thing they don't want to.

Just smile and wave, keep the emails, never slag off your ex to your DC.

This is from someone whose XH said he wouldn't be seeing the DC anymore because 'it doesn't suit'. They were 4 and 5. They've never seen him again since and it made life a hell of a lot less complicated tbh. Dc are in their 20s now.

Thank you.

I would never force him. I want ds to have as minimal contact either his dad. Ideally none at all!

I suppose this is more about control. The control ex has over me. He was always very controlling and he still thinks he can do it now.

I also would carry a lot of guilt for ds i

OP posts:

Onionsmadeofglass · 13/12/2023 12:24

Do you have ex-inlaws local who you have a good relationship with? If you do, I’d try to go through them. So set up a regular time for your DS to spend a day with his grandma or aunty (maybe once a month) and, obviously with the agreement of your inlaws, tell your ex (or they tell him) that his son is always at his mum’s/sisters place on the first Sunday of the month or whatever and he’s welcome to come over. That way your son is keeping some contact with his paternal family and your ex has a regular opportunity to see his son without having to talk to you.
Of course it’s only an option if you have local inlaws who you can trust with your son who would appreciate having a regular visit.

underneaththeash · 13/12/2023 12:26

I'd just type back Okay, Have a nice Christmas.

No point engaging with people who are arseholes.

Singleandproud · 13/12/2023 12:27

You can't force someone to see their child.

What you can do is when he decides to get back in touch is insist on using a contact centre so that they can rebuild their relationship - he probably won't want that.

As DS gets older he will see his dad for what he is. Even if he sees him sporadically it becomes a more uncle/nephew relationship which is ok as long as DS understands that it's not him that is the problem but be prepared for some idolisation and building up dad to be better than he is as that's what DS wishes he was. Once DS is 12 he can have a say in whether he sees him when his dad next shows some interest and he can say no.

Singleandproud · 13/12/2023 12:29

@Onionsmadeofglass suggestion is great if you have a good relationship with his parents or other family.

wildwestpioneer · 13/12/2023 12:32

Send him an email with a schedule of times he can see dc, slforninstance every other Saturday at 11am. Tell him if he doesn't arrive by 11.30 you'll take dc out and his next chance to see dc is 11.30 in two weeks

Dear x
Thank you for letting me know you won't be seeing dc on x date.
I will make dc available for you to see on Saturday at 11am, with you returning him at 5pm the same day. Starting on x date and then every other Saturday at the same time going forward (schedule below). If you haven't arrived by 11.30 I will take dc out and we will move onto the next available date as per the schedule below.

Original poster

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:34

Onionsmadeofglass · 13/12/2023 12:24

Do you have ex-inlaws local who you have a good relationship with? If you do, I’d try to go through them. So set up a regular time for your DS to spend a day with his grandma or aunty (maybe once a month) and, obviously with the agreement of your inlaws, tell your ex (or they tell him) that his son is always at his mum’s/sisters place on the first Sunday of the month or whatever and he’s welcome to come over. That way your son is keeping some contact with his paternal family and your ex has a regular opportunity to see his son without having to talk to you.
Of course it’s only an option if you have local inlaws who you can trust with your son who would appreciate having a regular visit.

Unfortunately no. There is his mum who isn't very mobile and wouldn't be able to look after ds. She has never once looked after him.

There is also his sister who won't be interested either. They are all the same - all about themselves. None of his other family will contact me regarding ds or ever ask to see him. They just won't be bothered sadly.

OP posts:

Reugny · 13/12/2023 12:34

I have it in a text message of the day he wanted ds next. I told him we had plans on one of those days and he said that was fine - no problem, he wouldn't have him.

The advice I was given was never just answer in text messages or phone calls always put it in an email.

So if you do answer by text or phone saying "we are busy" follow it up with an polite email.

That way there is always a record as most people keep their email accounts going for years and even decades, but some people change phone numbers every few years.

Then when I reminded him about it.

Once you have told him by email simply refer him to your dated email by email, then don't respond.

Onionsmadeofglass · 13/12/2023 12:39

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:34

Unfortunately no. There is his mum who isn't very mobile and wouldn't be able to look after ds. She has never once looked after him.

There is also his sister who won't be interested either. They are all the same - all about themselves. None of his other family will contact me regarding ds or ever ask to see him. They just won't be bothered sadly.

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That’s a pity but nothing you can do about it.
It involves more contact but you could also offer the same type of fixed arrangement to your ex.
So you tell him you’ll keep the first Sunday of every month free if he wants to see his son and take him out, but that he needs to contact you Friday (so 48hours ish) before at the latest let you know.
Don’t tell your DS obviously, so if/when he doesn’t contact you to say he wants to take your DS out you just carry on with your day.

Chickenkeev · 13/12/2023 12:41

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:15

This is exactly it.

When he got in touch, he told me the context he wanted and I agreed though made it clear I wasn't sure about the other night stay. This is due to ds and toileting issues which ex understood and had no issues with.

I have it in a text message of the day he wanted ds next. I told him we had plans on one of those days and he said that was fine - no problem, he wouldn't have him.

Then when I reminded him about it, he kicked off and claimed I never told him about it which I did. He then told me to 'fuck off' and to 'forget it, I won't bother with him at all'

It breaks my heart for ds.

The whole reason for this tantrum is that I don't show him any emotion. I don't speak to him unless I need too. For example on a FaceTime, he will try speak to me. I am polite (as ds is there) but then move the conversation back over to ds. I don't need to speak to him but he can't stand it.

Show quote history

It's shit for DS, but it'd be worse to be subjected to such a lowlife. I really can't see any good in it at all.

Original poster

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:44

Reugny · 13/12/2023 12:34

I have it in a text message of the day he wanted ds next. I told him we had plans on one of those days and he said that was fine - no problem, he wouldn't have him.

The advice I was given was never just answer in text messages or phone calls always put it in an email.

So if you do answer by text or phone saying "we are busy" follow it up with an polite email.

That way there is always a record as most people keep their email accounts going for years and even decades, but some people change phone numbers every few years.

Then when I reminded him about it.

Once you have told him by email simply refer him to your dated email by email, then don't respond.

Yes exactly right. I am learning to do this.

He is now blocked again on my phone and the only way he can contact me is through email. It's been on and off like that for a while but I end up un blocking him so he can FaceTime and then it just remains like that and it's back to text messages and phone calls.

OP posts:

LeggyLegsEleven · 13/12/2023 12:44

You’ve tried. There is no point continuing this. He’s an adult, if he wanted to see him he would.

I would stop asking and sit back and see what happens over Christmas. If he doesn’t try then he’s really not interested.

You have proof you’ve tried. I think if he comes back in the future direct him to the courts. I hope you are getting maintenance?

Original poster

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:46

@Chickenkeev he has another son who he doesn't see anymore. That's by choice of his son who is 10. As far as I know he wants nothing more to do with his dad. And being his former step mum, I understand why.

As far as I'm aware, ex hasn't tried to reconcile at all.

I think if I stopped contact with my ds, he would just give up on them both completely. He wouldn't fight for either of them.

Ds has also lost his brother in all this. It's very sad.

OP posts:

Chickenkeev · 13/12/2023 12:49

hiddy · 13/12/2023 12:46

@Chickenkeev he has another son who he doesn't see anymore. That's by choice of his son who is 10. As far as I know he wants nothing more to do with his dad. And being his former step mum, I understand why.

As far as I'm aware, ex hasn't tried to reconcile at all.

I think if I stopped contact with my ds, he would just give up on them both completely. He wouldn't fight for either of them.

Ds has also lost his brother in all this. It's very sad.

It is horrible to be sure, but you can't 'fix' this guy. No amount of forcing contact will change him sadly. His loss. Dickhead.