Is a day of isolation too harsh?

[Yomuma]

My son is in year 7.

This week, I had an email from the school which explained he had received a "level 3" punishment. This was because, whilst he was sitting in the front row watching a rehearsal for the school play, he found a crisp packet he had screwed into a ball on his pocket. He began throwing it from hand to hand, before he missed and it ended up going near the stage / performers. All this was on the email from the teacher, which described the behaviour as "very inappropriate".

For this, he received a full day in isolation and a bad behaviour point.

The teacher in her email did not say she had given any warnings, or asked him to stop, and also explained she doesn't know my son as she doesn't teach him but he seemed upset about the whole thing.

I do fully agree he was rude and disrespectful to the performers, he should absolutely have not been doing that whilst he should have been watching the performance.

Though I have spoken to another mum whose son punched another child in the face, and he received a day in isolation but no bad behaviour point. Ie. A lesser punishment.

I have also been told that the process is to issue usually 3 warnings first as isolation is a last resort. This didn't happen.

AIBU to think it isn't fair that my son received essentially a worse punishment than a child that punched someone in the face? And surely he should have been given at least one warning first?

He is generally very well behaved and is mortified this has happened. I hate the thought that I am "one of those mum's" that thinks their child is an angel, but it does sound a bit extreme to me.

Should I just let it go, and trust the school acted appropriately? Or do I need to raise my concerns that this doesn't seem very fair?

By year 7 a child should know not the throw things onto a stage where other kids are performing. The child didn't need a warning to know this is highly dangerous

But why should children do as they're told? They're humans with rights and opinions. I hate this attitude.

Children should be encouraged to question without fear of uncalled punishment. The sooner teachers and schools stop acting with power over children the better. I'm absolutely dreading school if this is the attitude of teachers. They are no better than other people and are no better nor more important than the children they teach. They need to stop with punishment all together. It does not work.

In this case surely a better consequence would be what hapoens in adult life...you apologise. The punishment does not fit the crime. What are you actually teaching a child? To fear adults and do as they're told. Doesn't really set them up for life does it.

This really does leave me speechless. A bit of healthy respect and, yes, fear is a good thing. An apology is important but behaviour in children, whether good or bad, needs consequences - reward or punishment. Teachers should be allowed to be in charge and absolutely should be respected, as should all adults. If this is your attitude, the school will be dreading you and your child's arrival there. Children like and need rules. Rules keep them safe. They also like and need adults to be in charge.

I think if an adult threw something on stage during a performance they would be asked to leave the theatre. Possible a more serious consequence if anyone was hit/hurt.
Just saying sorry wouldn't cut it.
I am not a fan of over punishing and generally prefer the idea of consequences, but there are plenty of situations where adults do need to do what they are told even if they think the rules are silly. I hate the whole liquids/security thing in airports but I do it.
I do think though that there are a lot of unnecessary school rules and punishments for transgressions (not having shirt tucked in, navy socks instead of black, etc), but it is what it is, and unfortunately kids just need to get on with it.

He behaved like a toddler. As a consequence he isn’t welcome in a year 7 classroom- for one day. Hopefully he uses the quiet study time to figure out how to behave slightly more mature. Nobody expects him to be an angel, but throwing food wrappers….

I'm hoping you are joking.

In adult life the consequence for throwing a crisp packet whilst my CEO was addressing the room, or whilst even on a christmas party event and carol singers were entertaining would be an apology?

You don't do as you're told at work or comply with road safety rules or basic civil conventions. What do you think the basis of all this learning comes from?

If children don't do as they are told it would be anarchy in school and children who want to learn would be unable to do so. My children question things at school in a respectfully way, they have never been in trouble for it. My kid is in year 11 and very succesfull in school, has all the teachers respect. The kids who cause trouble and make learning hard for other kids quiet rightly get no respect from the teachers. It's a school, the purpose is to learn, of course there are rules which have to be struck by as is the case in every work environment. You say you are dreading school, why is this? Because you carnt teach them right from wrong or won't even try. Your kids will have a terrible time in school if this is your attitude

It’s no wonder society is well and truly farked.

Ah so @Antsinmypantsneedtodance you don't have dc at school yet?..
May you live in interesting times.

whether he purposefully threw it or not, he purposefully started playing with a noisy paper bag directly in front of a performance?

you need to see your kids behaviour for what it is.

I think a day in isolation is ridiculous. What happened to teachers just giving kids a bit of a bollocking and that would be that? Or a half hour detention? Considering all we seem to hear is about how badly behaved teenagers are now, these isolations that they hand out like sweets, don't seem to be working.

@Fionaville have you seen the posts stating getting told off in school =trauma/emotional abuse?!

If he's really mortified then hopefully he won't do these things anymore. Maybe he is hanging around with wrong types and the teacher wants to put some distance between them. I think you need to know what happened by speaking to someone briefly, not email. Ask what you can do to support the school as they are trying to meet your dc needs. Tbh chucking a crisp bag around is extremely annoying and disruptive, could be the tip of one iceberg of low level but very annoying and disruptive actions.

Bollocks.
Creativity isn’t the same as lack of discipline. Quite the opposite. Getting good enough at something to be creative takes hours and hours and an incredible amount of discipline.
Also I finished school in the early 80s and started teaching in the late 80s. Behaviour is massively worse now in the classroom, so if creativity does come from bad behaviour we’ll be grand.

@WhereIsBebèsChambre Is putting children into isolation for a full day, for a minor infraction, better than a teacher saying "Smith, that behaviour is completely unacceptable! Show some respect!"? I don't think so.

@cardibach, I think we must be a similar age and I agree wholeheartedly with you about the deterioration in behaviour in the last forty years, which has escalated meteorically in the past ten years. When we were at school ourselves, we were part of the highest birth rate of the second half of the twentieth century and always in very large classes; far larger than those of today but teachers were mostly respected and consequences were understood from the beginning. As for bad behaviour being equated with creativity - words fail me. I have been a musician all my life and from being a small child have understood that it needs discipline, dedication and hard work. Conformity and teamwork are vital if you are part of an ensemble. You also have to be prepared to accept criticism. If you are airy-fairy, inattentive and badly behaved, you will not get very far.

OP your other mum saw the whole thing story doesn't really add up, besides the question why they were there (unlikely) the notion they managed to both witness it and hear what the other boy was saying all during a performance seems highly unlikely.
Unless it was extremely loud and way more disruptive than has been implied I think it's BS trying to reframe it that your son was actually a victim.
If he was a young adult and got arrested for a low level ASB crime do you think he'd be let off because he said his mate egged him on and called him names.
He has learnt you have to take responsibility for your own actions and make the right choices or face the consequences.
Teacher him to call out homophobia if you are so concerned about that.

To the self righteous poster quoting law, guidelines whatever and egging OP on the go and demand answers- what planet are you living on.
Do you have any idea of the pressure heads of year and pastoral staff are under- dealing with high level safeguarding concerns, desperately trying to engage with non existent support services and get resources for children really struggling with emotional, SEN, DA, poverty, coercion, non stop online bullying issues in group chats, grooming, self harm....all while also facing the pressure of also having full time teaching responsibilities.

And you really think the mum of some kid that behaved like an idiot and got caught and had consequences imposed would be some big deal they have time to give two shits about and some huge investigation launched, it's embarrassing and insulting.

No one knows the context here, no one knows how this child behaves normally or of this was the last incident of many low level incidents and a day away from his class working quietly is not equivalent to a day in the chokey ffs.

As a teacher it is my job to teach, to get the information out of my head and into the child's with the child understanding.

Multiply that by 30 children.

I cannot do that if one child is setting off a fire alarm, another is climbing out the window and a third is vaping.

As for things that happen in the adult world.

If you break the rules when driving you may lose your licence for a period of time.

If you behave badly in a pub you can be asked to leave or barred.

If you behave badly in court you might find yourself in a cell.

IF you don't turn up to work you will be given a warning and this can lead to you losing your job.

How does isolating a child from others improve their behaviour?

It's a cruel method, don't they do this in prisons? If you were to do this at home it would be seen as abuse. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Your Son should apologise for his mistake, maybe in writing to make it look more genuine, it didn't sound like it was done on purpose and I'm sure he won't do it again. The school have overreacted.

@darkh isolation in a school doesn’t mean sitting in a cell on your own.

However, a whole day does seem excessive.

It's called isolation. In reality it's where a child is taken to a separate room with adult supervision where other trouble makers are so they can work in silence. So not really isolation. It also means the rest of the class who want to concentrate can do so without the constant interruptions from one child. What gives that child the right to disrupt others education without punishment? Others want to pass their GCSEs even if the disruptive child dosent.

I’m pretty sure that kind of conversations are the bread and butter of teachers. Unfortunately, they do not always work.

I imagine that if the child was invited to step on the stage and apologise for his behaviour, this would be met with resistance too. I think the child would prefer isolation to this. He is probably just trying to avoid the sanction.

Isolation is simply working in another room with a teacher. There are usually a small group of other students there. It is hardly solitary confinement in a prison cell. I think that in the past many of these kids would have been suspended. It has really been put in place to reduce external exclusions.

@cansu I seriously doubt a child would be suspended for dropping/throwing a crisp packet or getting their hair cut too short.

No but they might be for refusing to follow staff instructions or for bringing the school into disrepute.