Is a day of isolation too harsh?

[Yomuma]

My son is in year 7.

This week, I had an email from the school which explained he had received a "level 3" punishment. This was because, whilst he was sitting in the front row watching a rehearsal for the school play, he found a crisp packet he had screwed into a ball on his pocket. He began throwing it from hand to hand, before he missed and it ended up going near the stage / performers. All this was on the email from the teacher, which described the behaviour as "very inappropriate".

For this, he received a full day in isolation and a bad behaviour point.

The teacher in her email did not say she had given any warnings, or asked him to stop, and also explained she doesn't know my son as she doesn't teach him but he seemed upset about the whole thing.

I do fully agree he was rude and disrespectful to the performers, he should absolutely have not been doing that whilst he should have been watching the performance.

Though I have spoken to another mum whose son punched another child in the face, and he received a day in isolation but no bad behaviour point. Ie. A lesser punishment.

I have also been told that the process is to issue usually 3 warnings first as isolation is a last resort. This didn't happen.

AIBU to think it isn't fair that my son received essentially a worse punishment than a child that punched someone in the face? And surely he should have been given at least one warning first?

He is generally very well behaved and is mortified this has happened. I hate the thought that I am "one of those mum's" that thinks their child is an angel, but it does sound a bit extreme to me.

Should I just let it go, and trust the school acted appropriately? Or do I need to raise my concerns that this doesn't seem very fair?

If you were in a theatre and threw something on the stage I am assuming you would be removed.

Why do posters say the rehearsal will be boring and tedious? Schools usually get other pupils to watch the final dress rehearsal before it is open to parents etc to watch. It wouldn’t be a whole day affair of stopping and starting.

It’s good to teach pupils how to behave in different social activities

Work should be provided whilst in isolation.

Throwing a ball back and forth between his hands with enough force to be 'accidentally' propelled onto the stage isn't just fidgeting though.

He was being a dick.

Well established in case law over many areas of law. This guidance is not deviating from the legislation or overriding it, it is advice on how it is to be applied. Schools can depart from it, but only if they have a good reason for doing so.

To take just one example, in Ali v Newham, it was held that the non-statutory guidance which that case concerned was binding. The court said

"the weight that should be given to particular guidance depends upon the specific context in which the guidance has been produced. In particular (without intending to create an exhaustive list) I believe that it is necessary to give due regard to the authorship of the guidance, the quality and intensity of the work done in the production of the guidance, the extent to which the (possibly competing) interests of those who are likely to be affected by the guidance have been recognised and weighed, the importance of any more general public policy that the guidance has sought to promote, and the express terms of the guidance itself. In my view, it would be unwise for the court to descend into the intrinsic merits of the guidance, unless it was seriously contended that it was unlawful or very obviously defective."

That in turn was derived from a long line of case law discussed in the decision, and there have been subsequent cases upholding the same principle. The DfE agreed to revise its Behaviour Guidance after due consultation as a result of serious concerns about the schools which were misusing isolation units, and to stave off this threatened legal action.

What interests me, @Myfabby, is the vociferousness with which you refute any need to follow the guidance. Why do you apparently feel so threatened by it? What do you claim is wrong with it? Did you contribute to the DfE consultation which preceded its issue?

No, it isn't entirely separate from the law. What a bizarre idea.

I didn't advise the OP to meet with the head, I suggested meeting the head of year and pastoral lead. Why should she not ask them if they are aware of the guidance and ask them to state why it wasn't followed? It is a statement of good practice: if the school thinks it had a valid reason for not complying with it, no doubt its staff will be able to explain that.

Being disruptive in a performance with 100s of kids in the audience is not the same as being disruptive in a classroom. Imagine every kid in the hall got 3 chances of making a noise before they were given a consequence . It would be absolute bedlam.

Why would you not try a warning for something as low level as this? It would be a much quicker and less disruptive way of dealing with it. Sure, if OP's son had been shouting or being violent then more radical discipline would have been needed, but it was nowhere near that.

Throwing something on the stage during a performance is a major disruption. I wouldn’t want to let him have 2 more opportunties to do the same thing again.

It seems a bit too harsh to me, but it's not so totally unreasonable that I'd bother arguing with the school about it.

And if one kid starts acting up like this and gets nothing but a warning, other kids will start joining in and being stupid too.

So do you think schools should never use warnings then? Surely if a warning works to stop the behaviour in question, it's achieved its purpose? Then the most that is needed is a quick word after the performance is over to make it clear to the pupil why that behaviour isn't tolerated and to confirm again that if there is any repeat he can expect a worse punishment?

Regardless of if he threw it at the stage he was being disruptive to the other students.

Maybe it wasn’t the first time that day and they want to break the showing off and disrupting class behaviour before it turns into the kind of carnage I went to school with.

If isolation for a day is one of the accepted abs published parts of the behaviour code and the teacher thought it the most appropriate tool at thei disposal to deal with the situation they saw

If lads got an immediate day's isolation for something like that when I was in school, half the classes would have been empty most of the time.

Of course they should use warnings, but if the behaviour and the context is serious enough then it’s appropriate to go straight to a consequence. I trust the teacher’s judgement as she is the one trying to maintain control of hundreds of restless children.

Same. I don't live in the UK though and from googling it seems to be very much a UK thing.

I’m ahead of year and what I would advise is phoning the teacher and asking if you can have a chat about his behaviour generally. Is this part of a larger picture? How can you support the school and improving his behaviour.
having supportive parents is the best.

Based on the information here I'd advocate for your son and respond to the teacher outlining the reasons you think it's too harsh. You could also give examples of behaviour you feel warrants that level of punishment but do not reference any specific child. If the teacher refuses to review the punishment you would have to escalate to the head of year if you felt it needed.

I presume he will think twice next time?

I would truly hate to be a teacher today. I am from the generation where naughty kids got the cane! We wouldn't have dared act up in school..if I had got detention I would have been in even more trouble with my mam when I got home!

He’s year 7, he’s old enough to know that throwing a scrunched up anything around is not going to go down well. He decided to do that and school decided to give him isolation. Honestly I’d be very much of the view that Dd would have to suck it up.

The reality is it’s not easy watching that many kids, and without consequences it would be chaos. I would see it as a good thing that my Dd is in a school that enforces consequences to maintain some semblance of order. I wouldn’t want Dd going to a school that was like “Lord of the Flies”.

I think detention and a warning would’ve been more appropriate but it’s tricky as I don’t know what else the school gives isolation for. It’s important for them to be consistent for sure. And the fact is some teachers are inconsistent and show personal bias/favouritism. They are not infallible or above challenge.

OTOH it’s silly when parents are quick to claim they can’t imagine their child did X or Y when they’re being told the opposite. Teens are very good at presenting a certain way to their parents, but will be very different away from home surrounded by their peers. I have a friend who claims she can tell when her teens are lying - but she really can’t. The stories her kids tell her to explain bad behaviour in school don’t ring true. She’s always questioning teachers and I can imagine they must be frustrated by so many parents who do this unnecessarily, when it’s very obvious their kid is lying.

So while I think it’s ok to discuss with the school if this is a proportionate punishment, don’t be so quick to believe your son didn’t do it purposely just because he tells you it’s an accident.

And to add it’s important to make sure you get the context. Perhaps the teacher felt it was particularly mean spirited of him because he had aimed it at someone who is often picked on or made fun of in school and that person was extremely upset . I do think it’s a good thing for schools to crack down on things like bullying for example and be a bit harsher with punishments in those situations. As opposed to someone who was just being a bit fidgety and restless.

Not saying that’s what happened, but just something to consider.

Sometimes the decisions around punishments aren’t black or white and what may seem initially to harsh or too lenient to an outsider looking in, is actually fair when we look at the full details.

It's already hard for the students to perform in front of their peers, esp after they have worked so hard on getting the performance right. This action was completely disrespectful towards them so the punishment was right. You carnt keep stopping the performing pupils every time a child acts up to issue 3 warnings first. The isolation will give him the kick up the backside he needs and a warning to everyone else.

I’m sure he threw it - unless the performers were right at his feet. It wouldn’t just roll forwards that far. It does seem excessive. I’d ask for a meeting and highlight the behaviour policy to them and ask them why their policy wasn’t followed

Just to reality check his story for a second- he said he was throwing it from one had to the other.

Imagine he's facing the stage (presumably as he was in the front row of the audience), if he was throwing the ball side to side, and only with enough force to meet his other hand- then it would have fallen to his feet when he missed one.

But instead, it 'accidentally' went not only forwards but with enough force to land next to the performers.

I'm sorry OP, but he's full of shit.

I think an after school detention would probably have been more appropriate but the fact is that your son is 11/12, he was being low-level disruptive and extremely irritating (very common in boys that age, l know) and he is now at secondary school, not primary. I think a short, sharp shock like this might make him think twice about silly behaviour in future. I think that on this occasion you need to support the school and tell him how disappointed you are in his behaviour, that he is now at secondary school and it is time to grow up. I can imagine that he is enjoying being the class clown in general and a reminder that other people find his behaviour irritating rather than funny, as well as extremely immature.

It is behavior I would kind of excuse in a 5 or 6 year old (reception/year 1), but year 7? very rude, disrespectful and that was just playing with thr packet of crisps. Throwing rubbish on stage? (i don’t believe the “accidentally “ for a minute unless he was actually on the stage”). Not at all too harsh a punishment unless there are significant special needs!