Is a day of isolation too harsh?

[Yomuma]

My son is in year 7.

This week, I had an email from the school which explained he had received a "level 3" punishment. This was because, whilst he was sitting in the front row watching a rehearsal for the school play, he found a crisp packet he had screwed into a ball on his pocket. He began throwing it from hand to hand, before he missed and it ended up going near the stage / performers. All this was on the email from the teacher, which described the behaviour as "very inappropriate".

For this, he received a full day in isolation and a bad behaviour point.

The teacher in her email did not say she had given any warnings, or asked him to stop, and also explained she doesn't know my son as she doesn't teach him but he seemed upset about the whole thing.

I do fully agree he was rude and disrespectful to the performers, he should absolutely have not been doing that whilst he should have been watching the performance.

Though I have spoken to another mum whose son punched another child in the face, and he received a day in isolation but no bad behaviour point. Ie. A lesser punishment.

I have also been told that the process is to issue usually 3 warnings first as isolation is a last resort. This didn't happen.

AIBU to think it isn't fair that my son received essentially a worse punishment than a child that punched someone in the face? And surely he should have been given at least one warning first?

He is generally very well behaved and is mortified this has happened. I hate the thought that I am "one of those mum's" that thinks their child is an angel, but it does sound a bit extreme to me.

Should I just let it go, and trust the school acted appropriately? Or do I need to raise my concerns that this doesn't seem very fair?

A different childs punishment should not be a concern to you. The teacher had to give a punishment on what went on before them. It was disrespectful to the performers, the teachers and the rest of the kids watching. Why should everything stop just so he can get 3 warnings? Support the school and explain to him how disrespectful he was.

You'd be more lost for words if you knew how bad behaviour is in our schools.

This ^

That is why he has got a day in isolation.

If you took him to the theatre would you allow him to mess around like that?

I agree with this. The consequences of his actions may seem unfair to him and you but he should have been sitting still watching the performance, not juggling with a paper bag.

This, and minor infractions, it would have been a clip round the ear, or sent out the hall to stand outside facing the wall. An occasional teacher would yell at you to stand up and explain yourself. Explain why you are an idiot in front of a full hall.
Watch early episodes of Grange Hill for examples of our time.
I would have liked working on my own, no noise, no distraction. That wouldn't have felt like a punishment!

Do they not have bins? When did he eat the contents?

Yes the punishment seems a bit OTT, but I think there’s probably more to this. They couldn’t stop the play to give him 3 warnings could they. Hopefully he won’t be so disrespectful next time.

OP, you have to wise up or he will be running rings around you with his stories. If he was passing the ball from one hand to the other, it would never have gone forward in that way.
He is not in primary school anymore and should know better, just be happy the school is happy to step in with these behaviours instead of letting shit go one without consequences. Please be supportive of the school and don’t be that parent who thinks their little angel can do no wrong and if they do wrong, they should be mollycoddled.

My dad learned to never tell his dad when he was caned. His dad would just say you must have deserved it so stop moaning.

Duplicate

Yes and thank goodness they do - it is literally the only way that my Y7 and Y9 get to actually learn something by isolating those who cause disruption and/cause disturbance to others.

OP, you have a child who misbehaves in school. This is your fault as parent. (Child - year 7 - is too young to take the blame.)

It really is unfair on well-brought-up children to have their education disrupted by others' poor behaviour. That's your fault too.

What should you do when your child is punished at school? -- You should tell your child to accept the punishment and not engage in excuses (such as, "I was only ..."). And try to work out why it is your child misbehaves and then thinks to excuse himself to you and get away with it, so as to put your parenting back on the right track by making suitable changes to your behaviour in appropriate contexts vis-a-vis your child(ren).

Unlikely you can swallow the truth, OP, but there it is.

[A bit depressing so many pp - parents in general - don't see this.]

Well said!
Anyone wondering why isolation is necessary really doesn’t have a clue just how bad behaviour is at the moment. love how everyone thinks they can criticise teachers and tell them how to do their job. I wouldn’t dream of doing the same to anyone in other careers that I don’t actually have a clue about! The idea of allowing an entire audience watching a production to be allowed to have 3 warnings and a detention and not to expect chaos is laughable. 🙄😂

We need people in society who are "badly behaved". People who don't sit still, fidget, don't pay attention or are away with the fairies or do daft things in class. Kids who rail against school rules. Or we won't have any artists, poets, comedians, writers, political activists, philosophers, musicians, and other people with unconventional careers.

In the 80s and 90s state schools managed to impose discipline without trying to break pupils or suppress individuality. They've gone backwards since then to some kind of Govian idea of Victorian schooling and they are so weird and different from the rest of 21st century society. No wonder kids are badly behaved. It's like Professor Umbridge is running most state secondary schools.

Yeah - being an expert in behaviour management you parents are GREAT at this


;)

I taught in the 90s

Behaviour was no good then

Believe us when we say we are in CRISIS in schools

Here is an average day of things that come to me as HOY;

Family breakdown and a kid homeless - has come to school with nothing
Someone has nicked someones blazer and is lying and saying they have not got it
Kid needs a toilet pass during her periods
Bullying comes to light that has been going on for weeks - the main parties deny it, parents livid we didn't know (!)
Name calling and fisticuffs at break
Kid reveals their parent is an alcoholic
at least one referral for ADHD that will take you two hours to complete
Bad behaviour on a bus called in by a member of the public
Kid refusing to attend Science ( reasons unknown)

My son is a musician and an actor, he is very in year 11. His friends are the type you describe, musicians, actors, interested in poetry, comedian, one of them loves to write poems. But guess what? None of them misbehave in school. They sit still to watch their fellow musicians an actor's in the schools concerts and performances. Absolutely none of the would be throwing paper bags because they know is not polite. The way schools operate know certainly hasnt broke any of their spirits. In the 80s kids where still being caned in school and having heavy objects like blackboard rubbers chucked at their heads, that broke kids, I know because I was there. Kids like my son and his friends benefit from kids going into isolation who misbehave because it means they can work in peace.

As a teacher, I agree with you entirely on an idealistic level.

But the reality is that schools are places where large groups of children are expected to work alongside each other in order to learn something, with only one adult in charge to keep the peace. If several children decide to rail against the rules and derail a lesson, and there's only one adult in the room, what you end up with is chaos. In chaos, no one learns anything. This is why we need rules.

I don't think 'school' works anymore in its current form of children being stuck in a building between 8.30 and 3.30, being shunted from classroom to classroom to sit and listen to information they have no interest in learning. But until we as a society agree that school doesn't work and actually put some time and money and urgency into looking at reforming what we call education, we have to work with what we've got. And in too many schools, rigid rules are required to literally keep children safe from each other.

Go and spend a day in an inner city state comp and it will open your eyes. Not sitting still and fidgeting wouldn't even register as poor behaviour amidst the chairs being chucked across the room, teachers being told to fuck off and pupils punching each other in the corridors.

Giving a teacher "examples of behaviour you think warrants that punishment" - yes, that's going to change things, isn't it?

Teachers and schools don't need a random parent's advice on managing behaviour - especially from a parent whose response to their son misbehaving is to think they should challenge the sanction, rather than trying to ensure the child won't do it again.

Parents who challenge schools' behaviour sanctions tend to be those whose children WILL do it again.

There are some things surely test do not require 3 warnings. Dispirited teacher here sick of parents not backing the school.

He’s not going to admit to you he lobbed it at the stage ever.

It's maybe a little harsh but he's old enough to know not to throw a paper bag during a performance. You need to support the school on this. Let him do the punishment and behave himself in future.
To be honest your reaction explains his behaviour. Do you really think he should be allowed to throw 3 paper bags at the stage before getting any consequence? Imagine if every pupil did the same as your son, the school wouldn't be able to put on any plays.

I mean a full day of isolation is ridiculous.

There's a power imbalance in schools as there should be. But that doesn't mean teachers are always right. It is completely reasonable for a parent to question a teachers decision if they feel it's wrong. Either the teacher will review the decision (or a senior staff member) and decide it was unfair or they will stand by the decision. There may be more to it than the op realises or the teacher may not have all the information when they made their decision.

If parents do not feel teaching staff are approachable then the school is doing something wrong.

And I say that not as a parent but as someone who has worked with children for over twenty years and as a school governor

Or the parent might not
A) have all the information
b) only listen to whatever bollocks their kid might tell them
c) never ever support the school as they know best

Sorry - but I am SICK of parents undermining us