Is a day of isolation too harsh?

[Yomuma]

My son is in year 7.

This week, I had an email from the school which explained he had received a "level 3" punishment. This was because, whilst he was sitting in the front row watching a rehearsal for the school play, he found a crisp packet he had screwed into a ball on his pocket. He began throwing it from hand to hand, before he missed and it ended up going near the stage / performers. All this was on the email from the teacher, which described the behaviour as "very inappropriate".

For this, he received a full day in isolation and a bad behaviour point.

The teacher in her email did not say she had given any warnings, or asked him to stop, and also explained she doesn't know my son as she doesn't teach him but he seemed upset about the whole thing.

I do fully agree he was rude and disrespectful to the performers, he should absolutely have not been doing that whilst he should have been watching the performance.

Though I have spoken to another mum whose son punched another child in the face, and he received a day in isolation but no bad behaviour point. Ie. A lesser punishment.

I have also been told that the process is to issue usually 3 warnings first as isolation is a last resort. This didn't happen.

AIBU to think it isn't fair that my son received essentially a worse punishment than a child that punched someone in the face? And surely he should have been given at least one warning first?

He is generally very well behaved and is mortified this has happened. I hate the thought that I am "one of those mum's" that thinks their child is an angel, but it does sound a bit extreme to me.

Should I just let it go, and trust the school acted appropriately? Or do I need to raise my concerns that this doesn't seem very fair?

Why is it a bad thing that parents feel able to challenge sanctions they think have been unfairly imposed? It is the school's job to manage behaviour, it is the parent's job to advocate for their child when they feel the school hasn't done this properly. Schools may be at breaking point but that doesn't mean that parents should accept any old treatment for their children. There are some kids who have spent weeks/ months sitting in isolation in schools. Isolation as many schools are using it is a terrible solution to misbehaviour and an admission that they have lost the plot. I have sympathy with all the reasons why this is - there is a vast well of unmet needs amongst children that no one else is addressing - but they are essentially "warehousing" kids and ruling through fear.

@KarlWrenbury
A and B are essentially the same. And I said in my post there may be more to it than the op realises.

And anyone who is C (and I better there's plenty) are dicks. It's not about undermining staff. It's about questioning a decision the op feels is unfair. And actually a lot of people on here agree (based on the op's post)

yet if MY kid was such a pain that they were removed from lessons , I would be MORTIFIED and helping school solve it, not telling them that they had done it wrong

Life is unfair. Not a bad lesson for a child to learn at the age he is. If it is the case.

I think you should say nothing and accept it, as from what you describe there has been no previous punishment.

If it becomes a pattern, then either your son is not telling you the whole story or there is an issue to raise as to why.

If a child is spending months in isolation they should either be in a special school or expelled.

What constitutes being "such a pain" though? That's the point - the OP doesn't feel her son's behaviour was disruptive enough to merit bring removed. The school may disagree and ultimately it's their call, but she's perfectly entitled to ask them to justify why they made the decision they did.

For most people life is generally a lot fairer and more pleasant than in secondary school though.

Nope, it’s fidgeting that teachers failed to correctly monitor. Isolation is a dreadful form of punishment that’s currently acceptable but will probably be regarded as akin to the cane by future generations. There are schools where kids in slightly incorrect uniform end up in isolation. It’s plain wrong.

Let it go. You're in no position to complain about this.

My son left his planner in a classroom, and the teacher put it in her drawer for safe keeping...and then went off sick for a week. My son was kept in isolation until she came back, as in that school forgetting a planner earned the same punishment as throwing a chair at a teacher. In fact, the chair child spent less time in isolation.
The lesson my son learned was to buy two extra planners and two extra ties - at £10 each for the planners. He did say that it was unfair that richer kids could buy their way out of isolation.
He got another few days of isolation in y10 because his shoes broke and I had to order his size 14 shoes online.
Thankfully that head has now left, and this child who spent so much time in isolation got 8 Grade 9s at GCSE!

If the aim of education is to help form respectful, compassionate, independently-minded, informed and moderate members of society, this is a very strange way to go about it.

It's weird... as parents, we're told to have boundaries yes, but also to model the behaviour we want our children to display. If you want respectful children, demonstrate respect for others in all that you do. Conversely, children raised in violent houses have a greater risk of displaying violent behaviour, children raised by excessively critical parents may lack self-confidence and have poor self-esteem, children raised by emotionally absent or excessively laissez-faire parents may seek emotional connection elsewhere in unsafe places and unbalanced relationships.

I wonder what the long-term effects will be for those kids who attend schools with these types of punitive behavioural policies.

You know what isolation means right? They’re working quietly in a classroom with a few other kids and a teacher. For 5 hours.

irs hardly Papillion

Worked as a teacher?

The word isolation sounds far more dramatic than the reality. It means the child will sit at desk out of the classroom and have their work sent down to them. They will not be with the rest of the class but there will be plenty of people coming and going.

It sounds like he was a being a total pain. It doesn’t really matter if he intended to throw it or not. He knows he shouldn’t be mucking about with a bag and disrupting the play. It is the kind of behaviour that teachers really hate because they know how much work the children and staff will have put into the production.

The punching thing is irrelevant because you don’t know the circumstances surrounding the incident.

Your child’s behaviour was disrespectful and poor. The school have issued a sanction and you should support them.

Far too many posts on here from teachers who feel overwhelmed on a daily basis; we should support their decisions not try to crucify them for kids poor choices.

No we don't.

Successful artists, poets, musicians all have to follow rules.

Actors who don't turn up to rehearsals or disrupt them don't work.

OP - you have described really mean behaviour. Imagine how you would feel if your child was on stage when something was thrown. Help your child to understand that actions have consequences by supporting him to accept this sanction and learn from it. Has he written a letter of apology to the cast? That would be a good starting point.

Presumably your DC have received many sanctions if you’re ’sick of it’? Why are they not following the school rules?

@Wolvesart how could the teachers correctly monitor the fidgeting if the play is going on? We have a chapel service several times a week and I spend a lot of time trying and usually failing to catch the eye of a kid who is whispering or fidgeting or whatever but I can't move or say anything out loud so sometimes they carry on and then do something that yes, after the service will get them a detention or whatever. They all know what they are meant to do as I'm sure the ops son did.

Would he appropriate for my child. Yeah it might be a bit harsh especially if someone got less for punching. For me i would want my child to learn to think of consequences for himself without warnings from teacher. He should be well aware throwing rubbish around during assembly at any point is not acceptable and very rude to those performing. If he was much younger I might be arguing that he hadn't had any warnings as per policy etc.

Good your son seems upset, hopefully lessons learned.

He has various additional needs including ADHD, his punishments have been for fidgeting, not doing work quick enough that sort of thing but yeah you go ahead and judge before you actually know anything. I even mentioned additional needs in my post. The punishments he receives are for things the equivalent of someone with a broken leg getting detention for not running fast enough in a race!

@WhereIsBebèsChambre

I've worked in schools and I'm a school governor . But no I would not want to be a teacher.

I appreciate some teachers will have a different perspective based on their experience.

There's not following rules at all or there's completely stifling people.

The fact there is the expectation for a child with ADHD to sit still all day at school and focus in the same way as NT kids is not OK IMO. These kids will often go on to do something amazing with their lives, it's not that they can't follow rules it's that they can't follow some of the ridiculous expectations schools ask of them.

My DS2 will be doing a hands on apprenticeship not sat in college in lessons all day every day when he leaves school, his skills and ability will be just as valuable. He already works and is able to follow the rules required.

There are many teens who really struggle at school (not necessarily academically) but absolutely excel at work.

It always makes me chuckle when people say 'we would never have dared misbehave....' and 'children would have been caned for that'

Firstly, there clearly were children misbehaving if they got caned.

Secondly, anyone who looks back at children being caned as a positive thing has something wrong with them!

Yes, I am the DfE- clearly

One case does not make it well established and highlighting another with SEN is just irrelevant. The school does not need to follow the guidance to the letter. They can craft their own behaviour policy-that is the whole point.