Kids and Covid test

[Spencer0220]

I'm just wanting to gauge other people's opinions.

I'm unvaccinated on GP advice. I have a few underlying health issues, don't go out socially often, and multiple GPs in my surgery agreed that vaccination wasn't in my best interests, in part due to my low risk of catching anything.

My husband is fully vaccinated. He also has multiple health conditions.

Ever since Covid tests have been a thing, we've had a rule that anyone visiting, or anyone else we visit, must take a Covid test beforehand. If they don't agree, it's simple: the visit is cancelled.

The ONLY exception to this is my sister's toddler twins who are too young to understand. If they can't test, we accept it. If their dad is at home before a visit, he is usually able to test them. We aren't strict with them because we don't want to traumatise them, plus they don't like cuddles.

We also, if required, happily pay for and supply all tests.

The issue:

My sister and her five children will be at my mum's on Sunday for twins birthday party. Husband and I are going.

Sister tonight said that she will not be able to make DS2 and DS3 test because they don't want to. They are 6 and 9. They have always tested before and I know of no issues. They have clearly been told why they must test.

My mum is begging us to reconsider. I said the boys are old enough to be told to test, and for their mum to simply insist. But DSis thinks it's their right to refuse.

Am I being unreasonable in my unwavering stance that, if they don't test, our visit is off?

DH is adamant he won't go unless all 3 boys are tested.

How about Christmas?

i would say you really need to way up your pros and cons....have you specifically sought out advice from a specialist in your particular autoimmune condition? have you been on any discussion boards with people with similar conditions to you? we likewise have auto-immune conditions, my sis did have an abnormal reaction to her first vaccine and her GP DID refuse to give her anymore. However when she later caught covid it wasn't anymore than her normal reaction to a bad cold/virus/chest infection. I likewise am chronically ill, had 3 jabs before a bad reaction, finally caught covid, got through it ok. i know these are only personal anecdotes but i feel your Dr's should support you in finding out more info as many, many people with your conditions will now have had both covid (with or without having had jabs) and the jabs themselves so there will be so much more evidence of how it affects people. It is really those that are immuno-compromised eg through blood cancer etc that have ongoing issues. I can totally understand those going through chemo etc having to continue to isolate but i think the auto-immune community are on the whole not in the same position.

They are 6 and 9. They have always tested before and I know of no issues. They have clearly been told why they must test

I find this part quite upsetting actually. My own kids were that age a couple of years ago and found the tests very traumatic. Has an actual medical professional told you that anyone you come into contact with MUST be tested? Of course not, you’ve made that rule yourself. And given the current context, it’s wholly unreasonable.

This is fantastic advice OP. Measured, sympathetic, and balanced.

Jeeeez. What a faff!! I only hear about Covid on MN now. Nobody in real life i know cares.

My parents are in their 70's and my dads "CEV" but he isn't vaccinated and takes no precautions, travelling abroad 3x a year still. He has had Covid a couple of times but just cracks on.

My best friend has a hideous auto immune disease but is the same, just cracks on, don't think she's taken any precautions since lockdown 1. she takes part in huge events and travels around the world to festivals. She'd rather die having fun than lock herself away.

I wouldn't pander to testing to see anybody, so i think YABVU. This isn't going to go away, so you're going to lead a very restricted life for a very long time. That isn't living.

I genuinely checked the date on this thinking someone had resurrected a zombie thread.

What are your risks to the vaccine any higher than anyone else?

I'm a physicist by training, OK, not a biologist or virologist, but i've been following the whole thing with interest from the start. Here are some points for you to consider.

Tests: we know that the RAT/LFT tests are not picking up infections of the newer strains in many cases, and where they are they are often only picking up days into an infection, this makes them a poor tool for inhibiting infection spread.

Vulnerable Groups: we know that many people who were thought to be at dire risk are at no greater risk than the rest of the population. Those who are at high risk are at equal risk of harm from many other common infections we don't test for.

Masks: we know through many studies that masks give poor protection, save for certain types and even those only work for a short period when fitted correctly. A recent peer reviewed study even suggests simple blue masks increase the infection risk, and there is good science, both physics and sociology behind the reasons why.

Vaccines: we now know that the vaccines carry risks in of themselves, how small is unclear, and the efficacy and length of said efficacy are unknown. I had the three initial shots, but have been advised against any further by my GP, take your GPs advice on that front, they may have good reason for thinking its a bad idea.

We are at a point now with covid where there is enough hybrid immunity in the population to mean it is not an immediate risk of anything but sniffles for the majority, it will continue to spread, and eventually everyone including the few it has yet to infect will get it - it will likely continue to attenuate, it is showing signs now of the beginnings of following a seasonal trend (trending up in autumn and winter), its here to stay, so we have to just put up with it, its incredibly unlikely anyone will develop a really effective sterilising vaccine or treatment.

PropertyManager why did your GP advise against any more vaccines?

*That's the part I don't get! As a parent, it's your job and responsibility to make them do stuff they don't like.

And I'm talking generally here, not just about testing*
so the kids get no choice and body autonomy over something that won’t help them, because you opt of flu and covid vaccines?
i hated the testing, I don’t blame the kids for turning it down.

Most likely they are vaccinated unlike the OP

Risk/benefit really, I'm a healthy 44 year old, had three pfizer shots, then caught omicron, had a mild infection - infection creates a more durable immunity in terms of T cell response than vaccination.
As he rightly says, there is no long term safety data on the vaccines, 20 years down the road there may be nothing to report, or there may be issues, so on balance repeated infection with the wild virus is the best way forward.

I don't know how you are still continuing to live your life like this

There are over 1.5 million people in UK who are still advised to shield (it's not exactly the same shielding as early on, but it is still significant isolation, and asking those they come in to contact with to test is still part of the advice)

Some people's immune system conditions mean they will never form a response to the vaccine.

That condition also may well also mean that covid is more severe, but it's now harder to get the right antivirals (national system dismantled).

It's shit for the most vulnerable. Not least because the steps we can take are routinely decried

As a direct result of the vaccine, my boss ended up in a coma for 8 days. Woke up unable to talk, and is now allergic to all sorts having never had an allergy in her life. she has permanent damage to her heart too. she's obviously taking action and her solicitor has many clients also gunning for a payout.

These stories seem to be being kept out of the media though, when she approached a paper they declined to cover it

There's no long term data on the effects of the virus either - but there are concerning indicators about the types of damage it does to the body (immune system, cardio-vascular system, metabolism, and neurological function). Plus 10% chance each time you are infected of long covid.

Quite, the virus may have long term effects, in fact we know for some it most certainly does. However the virus can no longer be avoided, but you can choose not to be vaccinated.
I'm in no way anti vax, in fact I think the mRNA concept is a brilliant bit of science which will no doubt serve humanity well in the future, but we have to wait for a good few years to learn fully of the pitfalls, so my GPs view is that someone of say 82 is no great risk to vaccinate as they won't likely be around when and if issues arrive, whereas those of us who are younger will.
Clearly there will likely be long term issues from infection too, but thats not something that we can guard against realistically.

Worth noting too, as yet we really don't understand how long covid is triggered, there are many theories and lots of interesting research going on, we don't know if the crude 10% figure is random or whether some people are pre-disposed to get it, so it may (quite likely) not be a 10% population wide chance. There is lots of very interesting work going on to find out.

Clearly there will likely be long term issues from infection too, but thats not something that we can guard against realistically

Well there is, but people are disinclined to do it, and would rather have a massed "fingers crossed" on behalf of the youngest in society who have been repeatedly infected, even now we know that this virus can causes significant impairment to many systems within the body.

Clean air is what is needed (just as clean water ended the scourge of a number of other diseases). So better filtration and ventilation. And wearing masks during times of high infection rates (at least on public transport and in healthcare settings).

It's pointless to ask some of the children to test and not others. And no, as a parent you can't 'insist' a 6 and 9 year old do it, except by holding them down and doing it forcibly. I'm still haunted by having to do that to my young DC at the height of the pandemic and never want to do it again.

YANBU in the sense that you aren't asking them to change their plans, but it could come across as emotional blackmail to say that you won't go unless they test.

Clean air is tricky, to really achieve air that is changed sufficiently takes a lot of air handling equipment, sadly the cost makes it impractical.
Masks, really arn't as effective as many people would hope, unless they are of certain types, well fitted and changed regularly.
The obvious way of limiting the spread of all virus types (covid too) is for symptomatic people to stay home, asymptomatic spread is far less of an issue. Its a shame that after 3 years, going on 4, that people havn't learned that simple fact - although you can counter that with an argument that the only reason the common cold is a more or less harmless URTI is constant infection and hybrid immunity.

I'm sorry op but you are seriously asking alot from people/family members to test. Covid is covid now. I'm unvacvinated and have some health issues but I won't stop myself from seeing family etc because they refuse to test. Especially children. It's pointless.

Furthermore this so called new strain of covid won't be picked up on covid tests

Which new strain is that @jadey1991 ?

A new strain? When and where?

Testing is no longer a thing.

I work in the NHS and we are not supposed to test at any point.

I would expect people to stay away if they were unwell though

It's interesting that the UK public health guidance is so anti testing in its desperate pursuit of pretending COVID is over.

In other countries it's recommended as the responsible thing to do. E.g. Canada, USA... The US CDC is making free tests available for every household. They also recommend masking and isolation, and vaccines are recommended for everyone (in US) from age 6 months, not restricted to a small subset of the population.

The UK really has taken "living with COVID" to the wrong extreme. At the cost of our health and the economy.