Page 23 | To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

Perimama · 2023-12-07T01:42:05+00:00

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 18/12/2023 16:27

🙀⚡️⚡️🌪🔥

whoops

OracleofAragorn · 18/12/2023 17:31

Burntoutbetty · 07/12/2023 07:30

I'm a Christian and can relate to this. I came to faith in my thirties. It didn't happen in a vacuum, and was absolutely not something I saw coming. If someone had told me I'd become a Born Again Christian I never would have believed them. I don't come from that kind of background and it was as much a shock for me as it was for other people.

But I can't deny that I felt God's hand over my life and there were experiences and circumstances which led me down this path. I've co pletely changed as a person, for the better. I thought I was a moral person before, but something within me changed from the inside out.

This transformation was beautiful and sometimes explaining what happened and how I came to this conclusion feels like I've poured my heart out and invested emotional energy in retelling profound experience. People respond with scoffing comments with the usual 'sky daddy' tropes and honestly sometimes it leaves me feeling like I've shown someone my prize collection of jewels and they laughed at it.

My husband is an atheist and I'm not scared of an intellectual debate or philosophical differences at all. Mumsnet just tends to spout out clichés and generalisations about people of faith which are so sweeping and ill informed, that sometimes I don't have the emotional energy to engage in it. We are seen as one big oppressed, brainwashed, unthinking, uneducated, thick monolith when we are a vast array of personalities, backgrounds, upbringing, cultures, education levels, professions and unique experiences, and we all arrived at the same conclusion.

Sometimes, people often don't want to hear. They don't want to know your story. They only want to put believers through the hoops to make fun of them.

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bottom line all the books, texts ect have been written by humans, therefore yes some may have nice texts but overall everything we know about any god or deity is all human created, and if the being or god is well god, then how can humans even understand what it would be that god could achieve ?

OracleofAragorn · 18/12/2023 17:36

God help us, if god turned out to be like Chuck Shurley from supernatural show

OracleofAragorn · 18/12/2023 17:44

Ahsoka2001 · 18/12/2023 11:13

Why do people argue that the notion of the universe coming from nothing at all is more plausible than a supreme being/creator coming from nothing at all?

If we accept that EITHER a) the universe had to come into existence from nothing or b) a creator had to come into existence from nothing, then I personally think b) is much more convincing.

After all, humans themselves create things which are WAY more than the sum of their parts all the time. We've made artificial intelligence, space travel, robots...all creations that are more complex and intricate than humans themselves.

So, isn't saying that the world - with conditions perfectly aligned for life (extremely unlikely to happen by chance as we've touched on many times) - came from nothing more absurd than saying a creator who designed it came from nothing? To invoke a humanistic analogy, that would be like saying a spaceship coming from nothing is more likely than the human that created it coming from nothing?

If anyone has a counter-argument please feel free to tear this right down. It's just a thought I had...

Edited

if im following your thinking then it seems humans were also created ?

ginandtonicwithlimes · 18/12/2023 17:52

I don't see an issue as everyone is entitled to what they believe. I would take exception as a Christian if you tried to force your views on me. (I don't agree with anyone doing that to anyone).

Ahsoka2001 · 21/12/2023 22:25

Livingtothefull · 18/12/2023 16:14

Well if Jesus was trying to con the world he wasn't a very good conman as he didn't profit from it - quite the opposite. Of course ruthless and greedy people have always exploited religious belief for their own gain - but it doesn't follow that the beliefs are inevitably wrong.

And I don't think that having contempt for people who lived in the past centuries is particularly to be admired either. Do you really believe that previous generations were all ignorant & credulous and today we know better? That is such an arrogant view of our ancestors.

Anyway I don't think these are issues that are up for debate. You either believe or you don't - as a Christian I know what I believe and am happy to discuss my beliefs with anyone who is keen to do so and has an open mind. However I am not interested in discussing with someone who has already made up their mind against it. Not saying they are wrong - and it is absolutely fine to hold differing views - but I really would appreciate fewer sneering posts stating that I must be ignorant & gullible. You won't persuade me that way either.

Thank you for this. I am an agnostic who used to be Christian (went to a CofE primary school) and am interested in re-connecting with my old beliefs.

I have no problems with anyone disbelieving in God, but some of the replies on here are definitely sneery and abrupt unnecessarily.

Hoovermehenry · 23/12/2023 01:57

‘@MidnightMeltdown " It strikes me that a lot of people criticising religion on this thread don't actually know anything at all about it"’

mmm, church schools from age 4-18, 2 parents from different religions so went to weekly services, bible school etc for both, studied RE & theology ( and mythology), grew up in a country divided by violent sectarian conflict…

it strikes me that people
defending religion don’t actually know anything about it.

Hoovermehenry · 23/12/2023 01:58

‘I have no problems with anyone disbelieving in God, but some of the replies on here are definitely sneery and abrupt unnecessarily.’

and I likewise have no problems with believers, but some of the replies on here are definitely sneery and abrupt unnecessarily.

Ahsoka2001 · 02/01/2024 22:17

OK folks let's put it this way -

Only about 2 billion people in the world are agnostic/atheist/no religion. So if you're saying someone who believes in God "believes in mere fairytales" or is "brainwashed" etc etc then you're saying that about 6 billion people i.e. 75% of your fellow humanity.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 03/01/2024 06:08

Spending large amounts of time studying the bible and with lots of religious folk really helped me see how it's all man made and designed to oppress and control (particularly towards women). I've not read other religious texts but am aware of a lot of the practices involved in many religions, and those are also oppressive imho (rules on clothing, food, contact between male and female groups and so on). A lot of oppressed folk have been convinced that someone taking their choices away actually gives them freedom, but that's really not a logical approach to have, again imho.
People can follow/believe whatever they like, but the minute they try to suggest that belief is 'the only way' or that tthey are somehow more enlightened then I'll happily offer why I think that not to be the case.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 03/01/2024 06:11

Ahsoka2001 · 02/01/2024 22:17

OK folks let's put it this way -

Only about 2 billion people in the world are agnostic/atheist/no religion. So if you're saying someone who believes in God "believes in mere fairytales" or is "brainwashed" etc etc then you're saying that about 6 billion people i.e. 75% of your fellow humanity.

What argument do you think you are making here?
Lots of people do blindly follow faith, especially in cultures where it's hard not to/forced upon them. Also many folk might identify as culturally a certain religion but they rarely practice ir and probably doubt how true it all is.

Hoovermehenry · 03/01/2024 06:35

‘Only about 2 billion people in the world are agnostic/atheist/no religion.’

says who? Being in a strict Muslim
country for example, and observing Ramadan for cultural, societal, and practical reasons doesn’t meant that you aren’t atheist.
we ‘observe’ Xmas but are atheist.
Sonhow are you counting the numbers of believers v non?
in theory U.K. is a Christian country…

Meowandthen · 07/01/2024 20:07

Ahsoka2001 · 02/01/2024 22:17

OK folks let's put it this way -

Only about 2 billion people in the world are agnostic/atheist/no religion. So if you're saying someone who believes in God "believes in mere fairytales" or is "brainwashed" etc etc then you're saying that about 6 billion people i.e. 75% of your fellow humanity.

Yes. Correct.

It’s a mass delusion.

Emporium0 · 07/01/2024 21:07

if the books are gods words and instructions then why have humans edited the books ?

Emporium0 · 07/01/2024 21:09

Ahsoka2001 · 02/01/2024 22:17

OK folks let's put it this way -

Only about 2 billion people in the world are agnostic/atheist/no religion. So if you're saying someone who believes in God "believes in mere fairytales" or is "brainwashed" etc etc then you're saying that about 6 billion people i.e. 75% of your fellow humanity.

well yes basically , its all based on books and texts written by humans for humans besides back in different periods of history a good percentage of people believed earth was the centre of the universe,

Boomboom22 · 07/01/2024 23:16

Give ai a few more years and atheism will increase more and more. Its only a small period of history we've had this level of tech.

I think us visiting us from other human colonies from a lost age / aliens helping us with advances is more likely than a god, both are clearly unlikely but possible, whereas the concept of God is beyond the dimensions and so impossible.

Boomboom22 · 07/01/2024 23:18

And we know how the planets formed and how we evolved so I the question who created the amoeba? Or plants? Think we know pretty much, certainly a far better explanation than Adam and eve. Assume believers don't think too deeply about it all as most are not young earth creationists so essentially see it all as a useful parable anyway, probably for the laws of nature.

Mambo1986 · 07/01/2024 23:30

Ye religion falls apart if you think too much about it. I mean evolution is proven so that would mean at some point in our history our parents would technically be animals so does that mean the bible applies to them.

Hoovermehenry · 09/01/2024 10:54

We used to mock ‘heathens’ for worshipping the sun or the moon but that’s something I can get behind, paying reverence to something that actually exists and that you can see. And that actually is responsible for life, death, food, water on our planet.