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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

569 replies

Perimama · 07/12/2023 01:42

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

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11
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 13/12/2023 00:12

Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a
much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created

Well I disagree that accepting reality, and not believing in things that lack anything substantive to suggest they are true is in any way a "leap of faith", but this point is, in itself, the absolute epitome of the pomposity and self-importance of humanity.

Of all the billions of solar systems in the universe, it's an inevitability, just through sheer scale alone, that some of them would provide the opportunity for life to emerge. Just because we are the lucky species than not only benefitted from being in this scenario, but we also hit the evolutionary jackpot and became the most advanced and adaptable in our own solar system, does not mandate that we must have been "created".

It's breathtakingly arrogant to suggest that we are somehow special or chosen. The reality is that sheer happenstance, biological, and chemical accident led to the advent of life in our solar system, and while I concede that any species fortunate enough to become predominant and sentient would wonder at it's own existence, that's all it is, a happy coincidence.

It had to happen to "someone", somewhere, given the numbers involved. It's also entirely possible that we are not the only sentient lifeform in the universe, and if there are other sentient beings out there, they are also amazed at their own existence. None of this requires a creator. Life will naturally be adapted to the conditions it finds itself in, just as different species adapt to different habitats here on Earth itself. Our Solar System provides the 'perfect' environment for human beings, but it self-evidently provides the perfect environment for countless other earth species, a few of which really aren't all that different to ourselves, so again, it's ridiculously pompous, self-important, and arrogant to declare ourselves some sort of special importance as a species when there is nothing to suggest we are any such thing.

The universe can still be, and absolutely is a wonderous thing, even with entirely natural explanations that don't require fanciful notions like gods and creators. All you do by introducing those is add a whole load of further questions which didn't previously exist.

envylope · 13/12/2023 00:13

I guess we will find out when we die! Something to look forward to.

Moonmelodies · 13/12/2023 15:03

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:10

Imo there's plenty of proof of God, but what is the sort of proof required? God floating on a cloud in the sky?

The miracle of life, DNA, the diversity of the planet, our very own solar system perfect for life to be possible, consciousness, gravity, the depths of our emotions, love, our desire to succeed and better ourselves etc etc......

Of course an atheist will have any other explanation for all that rather than say that's God....but to me that's ample evidence of a Creator. Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a
much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created.

"Living on this planet just to exist and then die" requires no leap of faith - it can be seen happening in organisms all around us, all the time.

jonesysy · 13/12/2023 15:09

Just think about your death for a moment. Everything about your mind, your very self is the product of that incredibly complex organ in your skull. We know how damage to that organ has specific consequences on our mental processes, our personality, our memory, our sense of identity even. When we die, our brain dies. When that happens nothing of our self remains. It is total cessation of our mind. Nothing of us outlasts that event. Lets grow out of these childish fairytales. After death will be exactly like before our birth. There is no mystery.

Meowandthen · 13/12/2023 19:25

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:10

Imo there's plenty of proof of God, but what is the sort of proof required? God floating on a cloud in the sky?

The miracle of life, DNA, the diversity of the planet, our very own solar system perfect for life to be possible, consciousness, gravity, the depths of our emotions, love, our desire to succeed and better ourselves etc etc......

Of course an atheist will have any other explanation for all that rather than say that's God....but to me that's ample evidence of a Creator. Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a
much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created.

None of that is actual proof. It’s just what you have chosen to believe.

Meowandthen · 13/12/2023 19:28

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:13

Why should we assume that God will intervene in all the bad things that happen. Might as well just skip this life on earth and go straight to heaven. We are here to learn, God isn't causing the problems on earth, we do that ourselves.

“We are causing it ourselves”. Really? Which bastard causes tiny children to get cancer?

Tourmalines · 13/12/2023 20:43

jonesysy · 13/12/2023 15:09

Just think about your death for a moment. Everything about your mind, your very self is the product of that incredibly complex organ in your skull. We know how damage to that organ has specific consequences on our mental processes, our personality, our memory, our sense of identity even. When we die, our brain dies. When that happens nothing of our self remains. It is total cessation of our mind. Nothing of us outlasts that event. Lets grow out of these childish fairytales. After death will be exactly like before our birth. There is no mystery.

Exactly. Spot on.

coldcallerbaiter · 13/12/2023 21:02

Just guesses, theory and beliefs.

Also the sheer enormity of the universe or multiverses or whatever the case actually is (doubt we could fathom it) may or may not be relevant to the existence of God/creators anyway

We do not even know if the true reality has even been ever thought of by humanity

Tonto2001 · 13/12/2023 21:08

The whole "Virgin Mary" idea had to have been one woman's secret affair that got very out of hand.

coldcallerbaiter · 13/12/2023 21:11

Tourmalines · 13/12/2023 20:43

Exactly. Spot on.

It is a good theory and it makes sense. But we do not know that for sure and we need to accept that we do not know everything.

overwhelmed2023 · 13/12/2023 21:17

You won't get proof of God at least as a non believer. It's faith not proof. For those who believe there's a knowing.

coldcallerbaiter · 13/12/2023 21:17

Tonto2001 · 13/12/2023 21:08

The whole "Virgin Mary" idea had to have been one woman's secret affair that got very out of hand.

Heard they were not married. Joseph was a widower and she was a young woman. He agreed to marry her either because he was the father or she was having an out of wedlock baby with someone that could not marry her. It was punishable by stoning, at least that is a theory I read. Also read the woo parts were added way afterwards to create a special link with the heavenly ones…

Achildbelongstoitsmother · 13/12/2023 22:14

coldcallerbaiter · 13/12/2023 21:17

Heard they were not married. Joseph was a widower and she was a young woman. He agreed to marry her either because he was the father or she was having an out of wedlock baby with someone that could not marry her. It was punishable by stoning, at least that is a theory I read. Also read the woo parts were added way afterwards to create a special link with the heavenly ones…

The Virgin Mary the most important person in Christianity (if you see Jesus as Divine). Through her the Church celebrates motherhood, whereas her husband, Joseph, is really only a walk-on actor.

But what the Bible says is:

Matthew 1:18-25
New International VersionJoseph Accepts Jesus as His Son

His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.".
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”(which means “God with us”).
When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Tourmalines · 14/12/2023 00:04

coldcallerbaiter · 13/12/2023 21:11

It is a good theory and it makes sense. But we do not know that for sure and we need to accept that we do not know everything.

certainly we don’t know exactly how life was created , but I don’t believe in any god form whatsoever .

MidnightMeltdown · 14/12/2023 02:32

I'm not religious but I believe that there is a God

To me it seems stranger to believe the everything occurred by coincidence or by accident. Where did the universe come from? Who created the Big Bang?

MassageForLife · 14/12/2023 05:32

MidnightMeltdown · 14/12/2023 02:32

I'm not religious but I believe that there is a God

To me it seems stranger to believe the everything occurred by coincidence or by accident. Where did the universe come from? Who created the Big Bang?

But then don't you wonder where some entity powerful and intelligent enough to do that came from?

NonPlayerCharacter · 14/12/2023 08:42

MassageForLife · 14/12/2023 05:32

But then don't you wonder where some entity powerful and intelligent enough to do that came from?

Perhaps there's a hierarchy.

I think most people of faith these days have evolved beyond "sky fairy" thinking. The understanding these days seems to be more about connecting with a higher power or energy. We have all had "religious experiences" even if that's not how we prefer to frame them, but I think that's the sort of spiritual calling most people are thinking of now.

Anisette · 14/12/2023 08:48

MidnightMeltdown · 14/12/2023 02:32

I'm not religious but I believe that there is a God

To me it seems stranger to believe the everything occurred by coincidence or by accident. Where did the universe come from? Who created the Big Bang?

Why does it have to have been created by someone?

Anisette · 14/12/2023 08:52

Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created

Do you draw any lines there? Or do you believe that every living creature, including insects and micro-organisms, have an immortal soul? If not, where do you draw the line, and why?

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2023 08:53

overwhelmed2023 · 13/12/2023 21:17

You won't get proof of God at least as a non believer. It's faith not proof. For those who believe there's a knowing.

Handy, that...
The thing is though, I was a believer. I had, or thought I had, that 'knowing'.

Anisette · 14/12/2023 08:57

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:13

Why should we assume that God will intervene in all the bad things that happen. Might as well just skip this life on earth and go straight to heaven. We are here to learn, God isn't causing the problems on earth, we do that ourselves.

How do we "do to ourselves" problems like children being born with life-limiting and extremely painful conditions? What sort of cruel God would allow that to happen just so that other people can learn?

overwhelmed2023 · 14/12/2023 09:24

Errol
It's true that if you have faith and follow Christ and have a relationship with God it doesn't really bear analysis. It's either there or not. The Bible tells us about Jesus and how to be Christ - like but obviously the Old Testament tells of creation etc which we know now is down to evolution. Since Jesus spoke in parables I also feel it's ok to interpret the OT as metaphors or parables. Not all would agree.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2023 09:28

How do we "do to ourselves" problems like children being born with life-limiting and extremely painful conditions? What sort of cruel God would allow that to happen just so that other people can learn?

If earthly existence was a school, it'd never pass Ofsted.

TheBeautifulMoors · 14/12/2023 09:30

SwordToFlamethrower · 12/12/2023 23:44

My very Christian mil got to the point in life that she thought that the virgin birth was bat shit. So instead she made it make sense to her by arguing that Mary was actually impregnated by an alien, Jesus was a hybrid alien / human and that's how he got his super human powers.

So she stopped being a Christian?

trockodile · 14/12/2023 09:47

Fieldofbrokenpromises · 07/12/2023 10:11

I thought this when they were dragging poor souls out of the ruins of an earthquake and praising God for having spared them. How about asking him why he sent the fucking earthquake and killed so many?

Obligatory link to Tim Minchin!

'Thank You God' | Tim Minchin: BACK

Out now on DVD and digital in the UK. Download or Rent now in Australia.After selling out his world tour in record breaking time and receiving rave reviews, ...

https://youtu.be/IcjQhXSNjtg?si=7zMmxhtI7W8AVOUl