Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

569 replies

Perimama · 07/12/2023 01:42

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
overwhelmed2023 · 14/12/2023 11:52

I agree that the willingness of believers to say someone is healed stretches credulity and is often completely bonkers. I se prayer as a way to be grateful and to meditate for a situation rather than asking for things especially for yourself. I guess some people see it as spiritual warfare good against evil

SaySomethingMan · 14/12/2023 14:53

Question for those who ‘debate’ faith with those you know have no intention of actually listening to of trying to understand your point of view.

Why do you do it? Why put yourself through that? Is it a genuine love of debate?

I can understand if someone is genuinely curious.

MidnightMeltdown · 15/12/2023 16:08

@MassageForLife

No, think that something can always just be. It doesn't need to have a beginning. However, the universe had a beginning (the big bang - at least according to current understanding).

MidnightMeltdown · 15/12/2023 16:12

@Anisette

I'm not sure about 'someone'. In my mind, God doesn't represent a person. As I say, I'm not religious, but I feel that there is a higher power of some form that we are not able to fully comprehend.

MidnightMeltdown · 15/12/2023 16:27

Anisette · 14/12/2023 08:52

Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created

Do you draw any lines there? Or do you believe that every living creature, including insects and micro-organisms, have an immortal soul? If not, where do you draw the line, and why?

I think most major religions teach that animals were created for humans (originally the companionship of Adam). Humans are told to be merciful to animals, and on the day of judgement, the animals will talk.

As I say, I'm not religious, but I studied it at GCSE and found it interesting. The three major religions - Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all very similar. Obviously, there are some differences, but they all believe in the same God and there is a surprising level of overlap (considering how much conflict religion creates).

It strikes me that a lot of people criticising religion on this thread don't actually know anything at all about it

ErrolTheDragon · 15/12/2023 17:07

It strikes me that a lot of people criticising religion on this thread don't actually know anything at all about it

Really? Often seems to me that the critics know more about it than average!

CurlewKate · 15/12/2023 17:29

@MidnightMeltdown " It strikes me that a lot of people criticising religion on this thread don't actually know anything at all about it"

Try me. Go on, try me if you think you're hard enough....

Authorinwaiting · 15/12/2023 18:00

@MidnightMeltdown They absolutely do not believe in the same God.

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 13:32

@MidnightMeltdown "The three major religions - Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all very similar."

Well, I'd question both premises here.....

Chinhairsoftheworldunite · 16/12/2023 13:54

Did Tim Minchin say middle class white b*tch in that song?

Lovely.

I think people like him and many of those who criticise religions/faiths have a particular image in their mind of what these faiths are about - it’s as though they hate a particular person and everything about them and this has coloured their thinking on anyone or thing remotely connected. the saying Take the splinter out of your own eye first makes sense here.

Everyones faith and relationship with a religious body is different - I don’t know why aetheists who attack think it should measure up to their idea of what religion is.

And the fact that it attracts such rage and venom speaks volumes to me. The only times in my life I have felt that, I have realised in hindsight there was something in me I was struggling with that I wasn’t being truly honest about and the church/religion/faith (in myself and others) was reflecting that.

I just am amazed you have such energy for something you don’t believe in, don’t think exists and do not want in your lives. When I feel like that about something, I don’t debate it, get information on the internet on it or bring it into my world by talking about it online

Turkey98 · 16/12/2023 16:01

Not sure being a man-made concept is really the issue - all concepts are man made, and they may nor may not come close to reality, but are often useful.

To say something is true or not or exists or doesn't exist can only be determined by those who propose it clearly defining what it is and what observable difference it makes. they don't need to get it exactly right, but if there is no such observable difference then it cannot possibly matter whether anyone believes or not, as it makes no difference in any case whatsoever - and it would be absurd to state such a concept is something to believe in.

I suppose I am saying unless you can show it has some impact (only a very small statistically significant on necessary), there is no point knowing whether the reality is true or not - it makes no difference to anyone or anything, so no point even naming it.

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 16:56

@Chinhairsoftheworldunite "Did Tim Minchin say middle class white b*tch in that song?"

I wish he hadn't said bitch too. Do you have any comments on the rest of the song?

turbonerd · 16/12/2023 18:21

MidnightMeltdown · 15/12/2023 16:27

I think most major religions teach that animals were created for humans (originally the companionship of Adam). Humans are told to be merciful to animals, and on the day of judgement, the animals will talk.

As I say, I'm not religious, but I studied it at GCSE and found it interesting. The three major religions - Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all very similar. Obviously, there are some differences, but they all believe in the same God and there is a surprising level of overlap (considering how much conflict religion creates).

It strikes me that a lot of people criticising religion on this thread don't actually know anything at all about it

Show quote history

The three major religions are about the same god, Jahve.
Judaism is still waiting for Immanuel, the Messiah.
Christianity is a «spin off» where Jesus is the Messiah.
Islam is a «spin off» where Jesus is a prophet, but the biggest prophet is Muhammad. No Messiah. Yet, anyway.

But other, polyteistic religions are very different from the Abrahmic ones.

NonPlayerCharacter · 16/12/2023 19:43

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 13:32

@MidnightMeltdown "The three major religions - Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all very similar."

Well, I'd question both premises here.....

They do have many similarities. They are all Abrahamic, so why wouldn't they?

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 22:22

@MidnightMeltdown How are you choosing your "major religions"?

ErrolTheDragon · 17/12/2023 08:08

Christianity and Islam are undoubtedly 'major' both in terms of number of adherents and geopolitical influence (polite word for it!)

Wikipedia shows 'irreligion' as third place ahead of Hinduism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majorreligiouss_groups

Ahsoka2001 · 18/12/2023 11:13

Why do people argue that the notion of the universe coming from nothing at all is more plausible than a supreme being/creator coming from nothing at all?

If we accept that EITHER a) the universe had to come into existence from nothing or b) a creator had to come into existence from nothing, then I personally think b) is much more convincing.

After all, humans themselves create things which are WAY more than the sum of their parts all the time. We've made artificial intelligence, space travel, robots...all creations that are more complex and intricate than humans themselves.

So, isn't saying that the world - with conditions perfectly aligned for life (extremely unlikely to happen by chance as we've touched on many times) - came from nothing more absurd than saying a creator who designed it came from nothing? To invoke a humanistic analogy, that would be like saying a spaceship coming from nothing is more likely than the human that created it coming from nothing?

If anyone has a counter-argument please feel free to tear this right down. It's just a thought I had...

ErrolTheDragon · 18/12/2023 11:30

After all, humans themselves create things which are WAY more than the sum of their parts all the time. We've made artificial intelligence, space travel, robots...all creations that are more complex and intricate than humans themselves.

They're not though. We're nowhere near understanding the human body and mind.

Lambiriyani · 18/12/2023 11:39

I read about Islam and it kinda all makes sense and fits in nicely to me.

I can't decide between islam and Christianity. I defo know that jesus did exist and believe that he performed miracles. There's the Turin shroud as well

Lambiriyani · 18/12/2023 11:41

But Mohammad did definitely exist. And his tomb is there.

Did he really make it all up? And make up the rules Muslims (well technically all of humanity) should live by?

CurlewKate · 18/12/2023 12:36

@Lambiriyani "There's the Turin shroud as well"

Sorry-the Turin Shroud was made in around 1300.

Lambiriyani · 18/12/2023 14:00

CurlewKate · 18/12/2023 12:36

@Lambiriyani "There's the Turin shroud as well"

Sorry-the Turin Shroud was made in around 1300.

Ta

CurlewKate · 18/12/2023 15:33

@Ahsoka2001 So, isn't saying that the world - with conditions perfectly aligned for life (extremely unlikely to happen by chance as we've touched on many times)"

Life evolved to suit the conditions, not the other way round.

Livingtothefull · 18/12/2023 16:14

Well if Jesus was trying to con the world he wasn't a very good conman as he didn't profit from it - quite the opposite. Of course ruthless and greedy people have always exploited religious belief for their own gain - but it doesn't follow that the beliefs are inevitably wrong.

And I don't think that having contempt for people who lived in the past centuries is particularly to be admired either. Do you really believe that previous generations were all ignorant & credulous and today we know better? That is such an arrogant view of our ancestors.

Anyway I don't think these are issues that are up for debate. You either believe or you don't - as a Christian I know what I believe and am happy to discuss my beliefs with anyone who is keen to do so and has an open mind. However I am not interested in discussing with someone who has already made up their mind against it. Not saying they are wrong - and it is absolutely fine to hold differing views - but I really would appreciate fewer sneering posts stating that I must be ignorant & gullible. You won't persuade me that way either.

43ontherocksporfavor · 18/12/2023 16:20

I was baptised Catholic and went to Catholic schools, got married in a Catholic Church, had my dc baptised but am no longer a believer. Most of my life was just following tradition with family and school friends were doing the same but I just can’t believe in it anymore .