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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

569 replies

Perimama · 07/12/2023 01:42

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

OP posts:
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11
Ilianor · 10/12/2023 11:01

@IncompleteSenten there are differences in how religious people will interpret scripture - some definitely more literal than others - but it (thinking of the Old Testament here) was always designed as a book full of poetry and metaphor.

CurlewKate · 10/12/2023 11:03

@IncompleteSenten "I thought religious people literally believed the religious books to be describing actual events. Isn't that the whole point of religion?"

Religious people understand metaphors, parables and guides too. As I suspect you know perfectly well. Not all-or even most-Christians are Bible-believers.....

IncompleteSenten · 10/12/2023 12:44

If someone doesn't believe in the book of their religion then how can they claim to be of that religion? (Rhetorical. Not asking.)

Yes, religious people understand metaphors. Of course they do. But that's got nothing to do with the fact these religious books are purported to describe actual events, key events that inform that religion, and if someone is of a particular religion, they're supposed to believe the things that religion tells them are true. Or that's not their religion. Imo. 🤷. God that was a train wreck of a paragraph.

There's a difference between faith and religion imo. Faith is something someone has or doesn't have. Religion is more a means to control than anything else and (again imo) one of the worst inventions in the history of mankind.

But then again, man is man and if religion had never been invented people would have found another excuse to wreck everything so it really doesn't matter much one way or another.

overwhelmed2023 · 10/12/2023 15:48

IncompleteSenten · 10/12/2023 12:44

If someone doesn't believe in the book of their religion then how can they claim to be of that religion? (Rhetorical. Not asking.)

Yes, religious people understand metaphors. Of course they do. But that's got nothing to do with the fact these religious books are purported to describe actual events, key events that inform that religion, and if someone is of a particular religion, they're supposed to believe the things that religion tells them are true. Or that's not their religion. Imo. 🤷. God that was a train wreck of a paragraph.

There's a difference between faith and religion imo. Faith is something someone has or doesn't have. Religion is more a means to control than anything else and (again imo) one of the worst inventions in the history of mankind.

But then again, man is man and if religion had never been invented people would have found another excuse to wreck everything so it really doesn't matter much one way or another.

It's not black and white. The Bible can be read in context and can be open to interpretation

ErrolTheDragon · 10/12/2023 19:35

It's not black and white. The Bible can be read in context and can be open to interpretation

Read in context, cherry picked, hugely different interpretations which have resulted in bloody schisms, lots of different versions which alter emphasis, differences in which books are considered 'canonical', passages which are known to be later additions....so maybe the 'god of Abraham' realised he'd done a really poor job of communication with the 'Bible' and started over with the Quran?

Meowandthen · 10/12/2023 19:50

namechangenanny · 09/12/2023 21:14

I would hazard a guess that you yourself have also not read all of these texts either before forming your opinion. God is love, all the love. To live without love at the heart of what you do is to be without God. It's not as simple as just saying he created all the stuff it's that humans are able to do as we like here on Earth but humans often don't choose to do good things. But if it's easier for you to blame a deity than accept that humans are imperfect that is your right.

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I have read all the main religious texts. That’s why I know it’s all nonsense.

You god is love? How loving of them to allow children to suffer. Cancer is not the fault of man. You can remain blind, but your ‘argument’ is a leaky as a colander.

Meowandthen · 10/12/2023 19:52

overwhelmed2023 · 10/12/2023 15:48

It's not black and white. The Bible can be read in context and can be open to interpretation

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Or cherry-picking as it should be called. Either you believe it or you don’t.

CurlewKate · 11/12/2023 03:52

Well, there is context and context. And I I do love nderatand non -Bible believing Christians. My personal issue is with the prawn cocktail eating homophobes.

overwhelmed2023 · 11/12/2023 08:21

Meow
Well Thankyou for telling me how I should believe. That's not true as per the various Christian denominations differ. The fundamentalist Evangelical ones believe in the Bible bring the inerrant word of God but not CofE.

Pollyannamex · 11/12/2023 13:33

overwhelmed2023 · 09/12/2023 22:24

I mean evil comes from the devil but the problem is, where does original sin come from ? If God created all, how was there sin/ evil before ??

a woman ruined it all of course 😂

jonesysy · 12/12/2023 15:50

Ploctopus · 07/12/2023 09:08

This is such a weirdly Christianity-centred view. There are a huge number of religions in the world, with a massive variety of creation myths. It’s not like everyone was bumbling along believing god created the world in 7 days and put Adam and Eve in charge of the animals prior to 1859.

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The point is that before the Origin of Species everyone was in the dark about how humans came to be. Now it is understood that we and every other species evolved from earlier species through the process of natural selection. All lifeforms on the planet have an unbroken chain of parentage reaching back aeons to the first simple cells in prehistoric oceans. That was what Darwin and science enlightened us to. For The first time in history people realised where they came from.

As for comments about whether humans are subject to natural selection, that is missing the point. The fact that some modern humans have avoided the pressures of survival of the fittest does not change the fact that it was that process that determined everything about our anatomy, psychology and social grouping.

Chinhairsoftheworldunite · 12/12/2023 18:58

I think Darwin was massively influenced by Humboldts theories. He brought his book on the beagle with him.

https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Water/CER/the_evolution_of_nature_august_2016_web.pdf

https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Water/CER/the_evolution_of_nature_august_2016_web.pdf

Meowandthen · 12/12/2023 19:40

overwhelmed2023 · 11/12/2023 08:21

Meow
Well Thankyou for telling me how I should believe. That's not true as per the various Christian denominations differ. The fundamentalist Evangelical ones believe in the Bible bring the inerrant word of God but not CofE.

Cherry-picking.

overwhelmed2023 · 12/12/2023 20:01

Meow
I see your point - why do you feel so strongly about it, are you a fundamentalist believer or used to be and had a difference of opinion?
This is something I'm currently exploring. I believe God is creator, but does it matter how and in what time span as the garden of Eden can be read metaphorically too.

Meowandthen · 12/12/2023 20:34

overwhelmed2023 · 12/12/2023 20:01

Meow
I see your point - why do you feel so strongly about it, are you a fundamentalist believer or used to be and had a difference of opinion?
This is something I'm currently exploring. I believe God is creator, but does it matter how and in what time span as the garden of Eden can be read metaphorically too.

I am an atheist. I have made a point of reading religious texts, most of them, which is more than most believers ever do.

Choosing to follow the only parts of your holy book that suit you is hypocritical. You cannot state that your god is wonderful, or the definition of love (see pasts posts) then choose the bits you like.

There is zero evidence for any god(s) and the burden of proof is on those who claim there is.

i have strong views but I have no issue with people who keep their beliefs to themselves. Make them a public issue, with nonsensical claims, and then I see hypocrisy.

FWIW, my family are CoE and Jewish and I live in a Muslim country.

43ontherocksporfavor · 12/12/2023 20:36

YANBU op and I was baptised Catholic! Nonsense.

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:10

Meowandthen · 12/12/2023 20:34

I am an atheist. I have made a point of reading religious texts, most of them, which is more than most believers ever do.

Choosing to follow the only parts of your holy book that suit you is hypocritical. You cannot state that your god is wonderful, or the definition of love (see pasts posts) then choose the bits you like.

There is zero evidence for any god(s) and the burden of proof is on those who claim there is.

i have strong views but I have no issue with people who keep their beliefs to themselves. Make them a public issue, with nonsensical claims, and then I see hypocrisy.

FWIW, my family are CoE and Jewish and I live in a Muslim country.

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Imo there's plenty of proof of God, but what is the sort of proof required? God floating on a cloud in the sky?

The miracle of life, DNA, the diversity of the planet, our very own solar system perfect for life to be possible, consciousness, gravity, the depths of our emotions, love, our desire to succeed and better ourselves etc etc......

Of course an atheist will have any other explanation for all that rather than say that's God....but to me that's ample evidence of a Creator. Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a
much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created.

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:13

Cleaningmyself · 09/12/2023 21:53

I think people want their God that they believe in to be an all powerful singular being capable of stopping atrocities - but maybe it’s not like that - maybe God is a concept designed to assist in stoping these things when those who believe act in ways where these awful situations are avoided, but not everyone believes so it can never be.

I feel as well personally there’s so much religion v science but maybe it’s the same thing. Religion and its teachings were just early ways to try and explain things which we now know can be explained scientifically, and maybe things we can explain scientifically were created by some higher force ? So neither is ‘wrong’ but they are one and the same.

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Why should we assume that God will intervene in all the bad things that happen. Might as well just skip this life on earth and go straight to heaven. We are here to learn, God isn't causing the problems on earth, we do that ourselves.

Cleaningmyself · 12/12/2023 21:17

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:13

Why should we assume that God will intervene in all the bad things that happen. Might as well just skip this life on earth and go straight to heaven. We are here to learn, God isn't causing the problems on earth, we do that ourselves.

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That was my point - I agree with you

Boomboom22 · 12/12/2023 21:25

Castlerock44 · 12/12/2023 21:10

Imo there's plenty of proof of God, but what is the sort of proof required? God floating on a cloud in the sky?

The miracle of life, DNA, the diversity of the planet, our very own solar system perfect for life to be possible, consciousness, gravity, the depths of our emotions, love, our desire to succeed and better ourselves etc etc......

Of course an atheist will have any other explanation for all that rather than say that's God....but to me that's ample evidence of a Creator. Living on this tiny planet just to exist and then die takes a
much bigger leap of faith to accept than to accept we have been created.

Show quote history

So what created God then? That makes no sense. And heaven even less so. I don't really think people believe like that, not truly. They have faith in a sort of universal goodness but surely don't think their consciousness would last forever as them.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/12/2023 21:34

We are here to learn

How is that idea supposed to work in the case of children who die in infancy or people with virtually no mental capacity?

Ahsoka2001 · 12/12/2023 22:24

boamorte · 08/12/2023 12:49

Brainwashing from a young age is why people believe in god

It's a load of BS

Plenty of adults have converted to religion after years of being agnostic/atheist, let's not generalize here.

43ontherocksporfavor · 12/12/2023 22:43

What’s the point of a god that has created a wonderful world but also great suffering and evil. What for? What do you think is going to happen if you believe?

For many, their whole life and community is based around believing and the thought of giving that up is too painful so they carry on in blind faith. No thanks .

jonesysy · 12/12/2023 22:56

Chinhairsoftheworldunite · 12/12/2023 18:58

I think Darwin was massively influenced by Humboldts theories. He brought his book on the beagle with him.

https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Water/CER/the_evolution_of_nature_august_2016_web.pdf

It doesn't matter who first discovered anything. What matters is that we now know and that our understanding increases.

Contrast that with religions with their cults around individuals who claim to hold the one truth

SwordToFlamethrower · 12/12/2023 23:44

My very Christian mil got to the point in life that she thought that the virgin birth was bat shit. So instead she made it make sense to her by arguing that Mary was actually impregnated by an alien, Jesus was a hybrid alien / human and that's how he got his super human powers.