To be annoyed that my friend ( a teacher) may be disciplined for telling parents one of her pupils took a pregnancy test?

[NiceTry]

The girl had confided in her and the test was arranged, via school nurse but my colleague decided that the girl's parents should be informed and may now face disciplinary procedures because the girl had not consented to this (the test was negative by the way). Obviously the girl (and parents) are very upset. But did she do the right thing?

If nicetry's friend broke school procedures and is likely to be disciplined then I think it is highly probable that the law has indeed changed since ten years ago. There were lots of changes brought about by the most recent Children's Act in light of the Laming (Victoria Climbe) inquiry.

sheesh - what a nutter (Victoria Gillick) (alledgedly) but she's from Wisbech so it's not entirely surprising!

Nicetry - your friend was wrong. If I were the 14-year old girl there would be good reasons why i would not be telling my mother. and i wholeheartedly agree with Mamazon in this instance.

I didn't say they are not people...I say they are not Adults...as I said...who will be taking care of that 14yr olds child while she finishes her GCSEs?

madamez not Mamazon. sorry.

it's the fever

mumcentreplus - she wasn't pg. the test was a BFN...

she came to ask for help as she may have possibly been pregnant already.
there was nothign anyone could do to turn back time. whether the parents knew or not wouldn't change teh fact that this girl has had sex.

How it was handled may have decided whether the girl continues to have unportected sex or indeed sex at all.

Yes teh teacher will have to have told social services if there was a possibility of harm to this girl. unless this girls parents were social workers she has still broken procedure.

have a look at DoH best practice guidance to doctors and other health profesionals working with under 16's

well i agree with Mamazon too.

i think i might go to bed with a hot water bottle and some paracetamol...

the major case law on this is the fraser guidelines

The Fraser Guidelines:

1. The young person understands the advice being given.
2. The young person cannot be convinced to involve parents/carers or allow the medical practitioner to do so on their behalf.
3. It is likely that the young person will begin or continue having intercourse with or without treatment/contraception.
4. Unless he or she receives treatment/contraception their physical or mental health (or both) is likely to suffer.
5. The young person?s best interests require contraceptive advice, treatment or supplies to be given without parental consent.

I agree she broke procedure...as I said I'm in 2 minds...

For me the bottom line is that we the parents need to ensure that our children can come to us about anything at all. Talk through their problems and hopefully get the answers and support they need...That would surely be the best way forward for everyone concerned. I really hope that my kids will feel able to do that with me.

The fraser guidelines applies to health professionals only, however the Sexual Offences Act 2003 made provisions for non-health professionals. A person does not commit an offence if he/she acts for the purpose of:

• Protecting the young person from a sexually transmitted infection, or
• Protecting the physical safety of the young person, or
• Preventing the young person form becoming pregnant, or
• Promoting the young person?s emotional well being by giving the advice
• As long as they do not act for the purpose of causing or encouraging under age sexual activity.

This covers not only health professionals but anyone who acts to protect a child eg. Teachers, connexions PA, youth workers.

If someone under 16 is not judged mature enough to consent to treatment, the consultation itself can still remain confidential.

so do i solo.
but i hope with every
inch of my being, that if for whatever reason they don't fell they can (embarassment/fear just not wanting to) then i will be gratefull to anyone they do speak to being loyal to them and helping them through whatever difficult situation they are in.

I would then hope that given time they found the courage to tell me.

Mamazon said exactly my thoughts.
It is clear cut imo.

Mumcentreplus on Thu 13-Mar-08 23:26:59
"I didn't say they are not people...I say they are not Adults...as I said...who will be taking care of that 14yr olds child while she finishes her GCSEs?"

Is this a reason to deny a child confidential contraceptive advice? Doesn't seem entirely logical to me. This particular child is not at the moment pregnant. But next time she has sex- do you think she will ask the school nurse for advice on protection? Like heck she will! Nor will any of her friends. So no doubt the teenage pregnancy rate at her school will go shooting up. Nice work.

The more you make sure that young people do not trust health professionals, the more teenage pregnancies you're going to get. Or else, why do you think this country has such appalling teenage pregnancy rates compared to the Scandinavian countries? Do you think Swedish and Norwegian teenagers don't have hormones?

When I was a teenager in Scandinavia, most of my friends were sexually active, yet they none of them seemed to get pregnant. The only pregnant teenager I ever heard of was the daughter of the Baptist pastor who went on a language course to the US. Different culture, different results...

I never said she should be denyed advice or confidentialty for that matter???

The School Nurse did not break her confidence it was the teacher...I was a friggin teenage pregnancy...and what helped me was my parent being friggin honest with me about being a teenager and being pregnant (mainly it sucked bigtime)..the reason why children in Scandinavian countries are not pregnant is because their parents are open and also within their society when you do have children you do it within a family setting within a meaningful relationship...not behind a bike-shed...

Mumcentreplus on Thu 13-Mar-08 23:26:59
"I didn't say they are not people...I say they are not Adults...as I said...who will be taking care of that 14yr olds child while she finishes her GCSEs?"

Why do you assume it will be the parents? Why not a creche or a childminder? Or should they be told aswell i don't think who will be looking after the potential baby really has anything to do with anything.

I did watch the pramfaced babies and I actually thought how grown up, sensible and mature most of them seemed. They all seemed to have good heads on their shoulders and not children in the slightest.

14 year olds aren't adults no ... but in many cases they aren't children either. It's like 17 year olds. Many are still very much like children, yet the ones on that show seemed very much like adults to me.

mumcentreplus - that's it exactly. it should be open and honest in a family setting but the teacher took that choice away from the girl by blabbing first. it made it look like the girl wasn't going to tell her parents and was going to keep secrets when in actual fact given time she may have discussed it. i remember a few times i was too embarassed to talk to my parents despite them being very open and honest. in the end i started dropping subtle hints and they got it without me actually having to tell them iyswim.

perhaps nappy...but to pretend like a decent parent would not be involved in a the parenting of a 14yr olds child?...

depends on the family. my cousin got pregnant at 15. her mum kicked her out (btw she is far from a decent mother - i often wonder how her 2 dd's have got this far) she went into care when she was pregnant then lived with her boyfriend's family for a bit and now she and her boyfriend have a flat together. she got no help whatsoever. at first she went to a young mum's centre which had a creche attached and now she is at college and her dd goes to a childminder.

my friend got pregnant at 14. she comes from a very loving family who supported her decision to keep the baby but they said under no circumstances would they be responsible for bringing the baby up. he was her baby and she would be getting up in the night, doing the feeds, bathing, dressing and feeding him before school and dropping him off at nursery, then picking him back up again after school. she says she is glad cos it meant she bonded well with her child but also knew she wasn't ready to have another one for at least a few more years.

a friend of a friend who got pregnant at a young age however (can't remember how old exactly), had a baby who was basically brought up by her mum for the first year. she didn't bond well with her at all, she resented her, she threatened to harm her to get her own way with her parents (she never actually would but she used her as a bargaining tool) and then cos she obviously felt she hadn't really had it that difficult or missed out on much guess what she had 2 more babies in the next 3 years.

Mumcentreplus surely most mothers are involved in the parenting of their grandchildren, regardless of the circumstances?

Yes but not to the extent you would be involved with a 14yr olds surely?

My cousin had a baby aged 15 and was fiercely independent. My aunt bought her a flat close to their house so she had the support, but she did it all herself, she finished her exams and married her boyfriend when they were 18. They now have another DD.

It is not ideal to have children so young but not every young mother relies on the state or her parents to support them and it is terrible to think so.

My mother did not have the support of her mother...she ran away @ 16 from a very abusive situation..had me @ 17 and went on to have 2 more children by 21...she worked 2 cleaning jobs, went to college and became an accountant..she was a very good mother (strong as hell) and I respect her for all she did and what she went through and she has her moments and always will...but I love her for the struggle she went through to give us a good decent life and I love her for being honest too...she asked me for 1 thing and that was not to become a teenage mother and I think that was a small price for what she had to do to protect and care for me and my sisters...anyway I digress...I'm off to bed