Are you happy for the government to automatically have the ability to have a look at your bank account?

[LeRougeEtLeNoir]

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving

• UC
• a pension
• child benefit
• PIP etc…

How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

Lockdowns and almost forcing people to get vaccinated was an infringement. Yet people happily went along with it because of fear. They had outright overreaching power into the everyday lives of virtually everyone and they got a taste of real power. They want more.

Yeh @LeRougeEtLeNoir I just remembered that 😩

THIS THIS SO MUCH FUCKING THIS!

If you're not frightened by this, you're an absolute moron.

Think. And have a read of the thread as to why that might not be a good idea, for those of us who are not claiming those benefits also.

👏🏻👏🏻

I don’t love the idea but it isn’t an issue I’d get worked up about.

I wouldn't mind if they used the power for good, like fathers evading child maintenance but they won't they'll spend hours analysing what someone on UC could have spent £5.81 in Waitrose on.

I have no problem with this if they also include everyone who receives taxpayers money, especially MPs.

They won't because fundamentally it's wrong, it's intrusive and it goes against British values.

You have to be an absolute idiot to think that inviting this level of state intrusion into your private, personal matters is a good thing to do.

Doesn’t matter that you have nothing to hide. It’s your own private business and unless there is suspicion of criminal behaviour, nobody should have the power to monitor this.

Invite them in, you’ll never get them out.

I thought they already did this? If everything is above board, it shouldn’t matter. My concern is if this is used as a stepping stone to further invade our privacy in other areas.

It really is a very slippery slope.

We have huge financial inequality in this country. TPTB can't go after any specific group and scapegoat them so they have created a whole underclass (of which I am one) dependent on state assistance to survive, and it's growing. These people are scroungers, malingerers just not trying hard enough yadda yadda yadda.

The next level up are being encouraged to blame this underclass for all society's ills, especially when they see their own income squeezed and shrinking - it's because of all those other people over there with their chronic health conditions, poor mental health, feckless life choices and irresponsible breeding. I mean, the reasoning goes that we have world class education and health care so what IS there problem?

Just because funding in those areas had been cut to the bone doesn't meant they can't just build some old resilience and pull themselves up by the boot straps. So your environment is deprived - just move. So your 40 hour a week job doesn't cover your outgoings - just get a side hustle. So your industry no longer exists - just re-train. So you aren't able to keep up with technology - tough. So childcare enabling you to work is taking almost as much of your wages as your rent - just alternate day or night shifts with your partner (if you have one - and if you don't then you shouldn't have reproduced). It's only for a few years, and ignore the fact that sleep deprivation is used effectively as torture.

And don't forget, for every ill in society, there's an industry designed to solve it, another exercise in shuffling money from the government to the private sector which is sneaking into every sphere.... with the object of making profit .... yet the stream of desperate broken people gets worse and worse.

The people supporting this move are those most fearful of joining the ranks of them over there and think anything that the government does to make sure the poor are demonised is a good thing because they can all polish their halos and "have nothing to hide". What proposed solution to the problem of poor people would be a step too far i wonder? What price their security?

And the wealthy elites will continue to make billions from the misery they have created without a second thought.

One change of the goal posts and you may find yourself wondering how it came to this...... Well, this may be Step One.

This. Don't forget this system will be run and administered by humans who will all have their own interpretations of the policy and we only have to look at UC sanctions/DWP assessments to see how badly that can fail people.

It's inviting scrutiny, and therefore control over how we spend the money we are earning and entitled to under law.

This. Don't forget this system will be run and administered by humans who will all have their own interpretations of the policy and we only have to look at UC sanctions/DWP assessments to see how badly that can fail people.

They are planning to use AI to trigger an investigation. Hopefully they'll remember to train it to recognise banking errors and not treat them as fraud, because GDPR rules mean banks aren't very helpful when money turns up unexpectedly in your account. You are expected to sit on it and not spend it.

Peopke will just have 2 accounts.one ckean one and one for their side hustles

This. People saying "if you got nothing to hide" are very very naive.

It's disgusting. And why do they need this information for people getting pensions and PIP?Neither of those are means-tested. It's a complete fucking invasion of privacy.

We are already more and more monitored everyday via advances in technology. People need to push back or before we know it we will suddenly be in some sort of dystopian future where the government is monitoring your every move. I personally do not want this and I don't trust this or any government with this amount of information about me and the wider population. Too much potential for misuse.

Not really too bothered about it really, you have to provide up to date bank details, including Savings, investments etc in order to qualify for many benefits anyway.

Whilst I have noticed that a lot of 'integration' has happened already at National Level, usually to the good - eg: my Carers Allowance is now included in my annual HMRC Tax Returns and UC monthly claims I do have a couple of buts:

About 7 years ago there was a run of different data sets in a check for WTC Fraud or similar. In my case the data comparisons caused some mess ups for me because it seemed that both I and my previous landlord (male) had records of being 'connected' to the same address whilst I (female) happened to be also claiming WTC as a single parent.

It only took a few months to sort out; the truth being that I rented a property for nearly a year from a long-term married husband/wife couple who lived in their own house. That's it, no drama to add.

The other point of concern being that not all benefits are available nationally, even just in England, the country I live in. CTS, Council Tax Support, or the amount your Council Tax liability is calculated, actually differs at individual District, Boro, etc levels. I know mine states that any claimant with total savings of £6k+ is automatically ineligible whilst many operate a sliding scale.

Either way, currently, proof of savings, etc must be provided by the claimant with their application or at any subsequent time which can be a bit of a waste of time and resources for both parties (council and claimant) and possibly an unecessary exercise if this info could be found automatically.

Nobody would have time for that.

You weren't aware they are planning to use AI?

Christ.

I think actually they should be checking MPs accounts to see if they could afford the gas and electricity bills for their second homes themselves rather than claiming it on expenses ……

I have nothing to hide but I don't want the government checking out my finances either.

I jumped through hoop after hoop for years to get my benefits after working two jobs or volunteering (and starting work cleaning cars every Saturday and through the summer holidays at a local business from age 12) all my life.

My benefits are not income-related as my DP owns his own home and works so I don't get any of the 'extras' like free eye tests or help with energy costs.

I'm a woman but AI will see I buy male razor blades and toiletries (they're cheaper than paying the pink tax). I have a driving licence but no longer drive (I used to love driving but now choose not to). I'm not giving my licence up unless medically forced.

I could not live on my benefits without my DP's financial help. I can't function properly without his physical care. With this in mind, I pay for some things out of my account that are purchased on his behalf or a 'luxury' for us both.

I strongly object to them having access to my bank account.

The whole AI thing is a nightmare in and of itself. Previous iterations have been found to be biased by the humans who programmed them in obvious areas.

It's bad enough trying to sort out an issue when "computer says no" and it's nigh on impossible to talk to a human. If it takes months to sort out when your bank account is frozen, how are you supposed to live? Or do you join the ranks of the underclass due to a technical error? Even though you had nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear.....

And to add - not sure what all the fuss is about - if "The Govt" really want to know about your finances, you can bet that they already do.

If the police or HMRC want to see an individual's bank account they have to apply for a Production Order & justify the application before a Crown Court Judge.
Why should the DWP just be able to peep into people's accounts?

Why shouldn't they?

They already can to a certain extent.

When the interest rates went up, I got a letter telling me I'd paid too little tax and had exceeded the personal interest allowance.

I never told them, but the govt just knows.