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Original poster

Are you happy for the government to automatically have the ability to have a look at your bank account?

350 replies

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 04/12/2023 19:37

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving

  • UC
  • a pension
  • child benefit
  • PIP etc…
How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

New legislation gives government permission to snoop on your bank account

A clause in the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill hands the DWP power to inspect the bank accounts.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

OP posts:
FarmGirl78 · 06/12/2023 14:28

Do you claim the benefits mentioned?

@keye Yes I'm currently suffering with long term sickness so as of about 2 weeks ago I'm on ESA or whatever it is, and PIP.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 06/12/2023 14:59

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 06/12/2023 13:21

Frank from HMRC won't have time or inclination to judging me for ordering JustEat last night because I couldn't be arsed making mash to go with the pie I already had in.

But that’s not what they are going use that data for. They can already do that when they do punctual checks.

They are going to use it to extract information. Infirmation that can be sold, just like they’ve sold our health data.

Information that will lead to new rules on what benefits can be used for or how much to give people. Information to ‘judge’ groups of people (from line parents to MW workers etc etc)
On a personal pov, i doubt anyone would come and judge you fir buying a takeaway. But they might decide that they are giving too much if you can afford said takeaway *remember the ‘people can’t buy houses because they a coffee at Costa!). Or that ‘people just spend their money on crap’ so we will give them vouchers or even better a weekly shop instead - like they did with the free school lunches (remember those awful packs they gave to replace free school meals?).
Or they might put limits on your account on how much you can spend on specific products (such as takeaways) as they do in China….

This would absolutely be my concern.

Headlines like "disabled people spend £2 million in benefits payments a month on takeaways" would have some people whipping up support for people on pip to be given food vouchers rather than money, because they can't be "trusted" to make good spending decisions etc

keye · 06/12/2023 15:07

FarmGirl78 · 06/12/2023 14:28

Do you claim the benefits mentioned?

@keye Yes I'm currently suffering with long term sickness so as of about 2 weeks ago I'm on ESA or whatever it is, and PIP.

Edited

But you have no concerns about your spending being monitored?

ScremeEggs · 06/12/2023 15:19

Headlines like "disabled people spend £2 million in benefits payments a month on takeaways"

Urgh, can totally imagine the Daily Fail doing this 😡😢

Bleakmidwinter1977 · 06/12/2023 15:25

What about when they are a query (unfounded) and they block your accounts/stop your benefit until you can prove that £20 deposited into your bank account last week was money your daughter sent you to buy a jumper for Christmas?

stepintochristmas1 · 06/12/2023 15:34

I could definitely see future tory government issuing an approved spending lists with sanctions now that they have the power to see spending .

LinguisticallyCunning · 06/12/2023 15:51

stepintochristmas1 · 06/12/2023 15:34

I could definitely see future tory government issuing an approved spending lists with sanctions now that they have the power to see spending .

If they're going to do this then I'll go back to using cash everywhere. Until they put a stop to that, that is.

Zanatdy · 06/12/2023 15:54

No problem with this at all

FarmGirl78 · 06/12/2023 16:02

@keye Nope. Not bothered. No issue with it. If it helps cut down on fraud then crack on.

SarahShorty · 06/12/2023 18:33

It never ceases to amaze me how much blind faith people put into such an enormous, bloated and faceless entity such as the government.

Rummikub · 06/12/2023 18:40

One issue with it is what are they going to do with all that data mined?

They'll be able to see patterns, averages, monitor spending behaviour. Look what happened when Facebook put all their data together.

Badbadbunny · 06/12/2023 18:52

HMRC have been struggling to do similar with self employed/small businesses for about a decade now with their stupid "Making tax digital" for income tax, which has been postponed time and time again.

Originally, they wanted small businesses to use software for book-keeping which would "ping" all their transactions up to HMRC so HMRC could review their records. When HMRC finally accepted that wouldn't work, they downgraded their data requirements, and downgraded them again and again over the years. Now all they're wanting to be submitted are a small number of "totals", i.e. total sales for the period, total costs by category, etc., so basically, bugger all use as that's exactly the data they get from the self assessment tax return.

HMRC have so far wasted over £60m on the stupid scheme and still won't accept it's pointless and won't scrap it.

I think this proposal for access to personal bank accounts will go the same. Lots of hot air, ultimately downgraded and probably eventually forgotten about, but in the meantime, costing taxpayers tens of millions of pounds and lining the pockets of the HMRC advisory firms who are no doubt the ones pushing for it.

HMRC need to concentrate on doing what they're already allowed to do and doing it properly, before they even think of extending their powers/scope of operation. They're hopelessly managed and, at best, incompetent. New laws and extensions of their work will just make things work and make other aspects even more disfunctional.

Haydenn · 06/12/2023 18:54

Insurance companies, loan companies, debt collectors already do this as “open banking” the government is behind the curve

SutWytTi · 06/12/2023 19:10

catskittens · 06/12/2023 19:06

“This measure is drafted broadly . . . to enable DWP to apply this measure to non-financial organisations in future if it is deemed appropriate and proportionate”

It'll be applied all of us soon enough.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 06/12/2023 19:36

WTF does "non-financial organisations" cover ? 😳

glossypeach · 06/12/2023 19:48

I’m scared. Not because I’m doing anything wrong, but what if I’m wrongly ‘flagged’ and investigated and my benefits get stopped. I’m a disabled single parent who relies on the small bit of money I get from benefits. I’m completely grateful that I’m able to live because of this money - but there is no reason that genuine people like myself should have their privacy invaded when we’re just trying to live. There is such a small percentage of benefit claimants who are doing it fraudulently and unfortunately those people seem to get away with it, whilst the wrong people end up suffering.

CampsieGlamper · 06/12/2023 20:06

A great many contributors against crackdown on benefits cheats cite illegal tax evasion by the "rich". Surely this governmental access could address this as much as benefit fraud by the "poor".

As regards "surveillance state", it was the Tories who opposed Id cards which Browns labour government were trying to introduce. Even in light of the illegal immigrants crackdown, the suggestion of Id cards has not been suggested.

Choosychoice · 06/12/2023 20:23

I’m quite happy for the government to access my accounts and think it’s a great way to find tax evasion. It should be all citizens though, not just those claiming benefits.

and as someone who’s other have works in medical research, how do you expect diseases to be cured if you don’t agree to your data being used???? The paranoia surrounding this sort of thing is off the scale. The researchers don’t give a shit who you are, which is why it is totally anonymised. It’s for making connections such as people living near e.g. cinemas / power lines / strip clubs are x more likely to get chicken pox / liver cancer / alopecia. Leads you into making connections that leads you to causes which leads you to prevention.

SarahShorty · 06/12/2023 20:46

Data is data, be it medical or financial. It's a group effort in the medical industry as you say to make better medicines and develop more effective treatments and cures. However, there is no reason to share financial data and spending habits unless the owner of said data is being scrutinised, ie Trump's taxes (which revealed nothing of interest and thus was a huge waste of time).

As for ensuring big names 'pay their fair share', that means taxing them more which makes the country too expensive to operate in, so they'll leave the country, which then means mass lay-offs.

Rummikub · 06/12/2023 20:57

Point being they aren’t looking for tax evasion. It’s only targeting those on benefits.

Original poster
LeRougeEtLeNoir · 06/12/2023 20:57

catskittens · 06/12/2023 19:06

And @SutWytTi that’s what some posters were alluding too wasn’t it?

Scary….
Because if they somehow manage to implement it before the next election, it’s not going to go away. Too much benefit fir any government not use it if it’s there.

OP posts:
Rummikub · 06/12/2023 20:59

Isn’t it starting at Xmas?

SutWytTi · 06/12/2023 21:05

glossypeach · 06/12/2023 19:48

I’m scared. Not because I’m doing anything wrong, but what if I’m wrongly ‘flagged’ and investigated and my benefits get stopped. I’m a disabled single parent who relies on the small bit of money I get from benefits. I’m completely grateful that I’m able to live because of this money - but there is no reason that genuine people like myself should have their privacy invaded when we’re just trying to live. There is such a small percentage of benefit claimants who are doing it fraudulently and unfortunately those people seem to get away with it, whilst the wrong people end up suffering.

Flowers it's awful

AlwaysGinPlease · 06/12/2023 21:06

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 04/12/2023 19:37

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving

  • UC
  • a pension
  • child benefit
  • PIP etc…
How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

It's not state pension, it's pension credit. Oh and stop picking people out and then not responding when you're called out on your nonsense.

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