Page 14 | Are you happy for the government to automatically have the ability to have a look at your bank account?

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 2023-12-04T19:37:52+00:00

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving - UC - a pension - child benefit - PIP etc… How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there. [[https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24 https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24]]

SutWytTi · 06/12/2023 21:08

Choosychoice · 06/12/2023 20:23

I’m quite happy for the government to access my accounts and think it’s a great way to find tax evasion. It should be all citizens though, not just those claiming benefits.

and as someone who’s other have works in medical research, how do you expect diseases to be cured if you don’t agree to your data being used???? The paranoia surrounding this sort of thing is off the scale. The researchers don’t give a shit who you are, which is why it is totally anonymised. It’s for making connections such as people living near e.g. cinemas / power lines / strip clubs are x more likely to get chicken pox / liver cancer / alopecia. Leads you into making connections that leads you to causes which leads you to prevention.

You think the government should have access to everyone's private information?

Fuck that shit.

ImNunTheWiser · 06/12/2023 21:31

User136921 · 06/12/2023 07:48

Though I don't know what happens if you sell something like a car on eBay, DH bought a small boat off someone for around £2K, I can't imagine that people rush to declare the tax, there must be more to it than just selling over £1k worth of stuff.

It’s not based on selling over £1k of goods. It’s based on whether you’re ‘trading’ (ie making stuff to sell, or buying items to sell on at a profit) and whether you’re in profit of more than £1k. It’s unlikely to ever affect anyone just selling their own second hand stuff, no matter how much they make.

So, if someone who is struggling to pay their bills decides to sell some of theirs own possessions on eBay to help pay the bills, and makes £2,000.00 on them, the original cost of those items would have had to have been less than £1,000.00 in order for them to have made a £1k ‘profit’ on them.

ImNunTheWiser · 06/12/2023 22:04

From that link:

Setting up software to automatically send details to the DWP of every claimant account that goes over the capital limit or is used abroad for more than four weeks will be very straightforward for banks

and

Any bank failing to collect and pass on data to the DWP will be subject to heavy fines

This is fucking laughable. The banks may technically have the data but ‘it will be very straightforward’ no. They will have to spend millions on updating their IT systems (of which there will be hundreds across the 15 UK banks), testing them, reporting etc and all under threat of heavy fines? UK banks will tell the government to get fucked. Or failing that, they will simply refuse to let any DWP benefit claimant have a bank account based on the risk of defaulting and being fined.

LittleMissSunshiner · 06/12/2023 23:08

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 06/12/2023 13:21

Frank from HMRC won't have time or inclination to judging me for ordering JustEat last night because I couldn't be arsed making mash to go with the pie I already had in.

But that’s not what they are going use that data for. They can already do that when they do punctual checks.

They are going to use it to extract information. Infirmation that can be sold, just like they’ve sold our health data.

Information that will lead to new rules on what benefits can be used for or how much to give people. Information to ‘judge’ groups of people (from line parents to MW workers etc etc)
On a personal pov, i doubt anyone would come and judge you fir buying a takeaway. But they might decide that they are giving too much if you can afford said takeaway *remember the ‘people can’t buy houses because they a coffee at Costa!). Or that ‘people just spend their money on crap’ so we will give them vouchers or even better a weekly shop instead - like they did with the free school lunches (remember those awful packs they gave to replace free school meals?).
Or they might put limits on your account on how much you can spend on specific products (such as takeaways) as they do in China….

The main thing they're going to use the 'social credit score' and all this analysis for in the future is to build the case for local climate emergency lockdowns (this is already well underway), 'walkable 15 minute cities' (great, but you can't actually leave), measuring energy usage down to minute detail and charging people for their consumption of literally everything, preventing freedom of travel (ie so many travel energy points per annum), limiting personal movement and personal consumption based on your 'worth' to society, monitoring work proficiency in a way that goes far beyond time and motion studies.

We will be but factory farm cattle at this point. They want to know how many units of energy we'll need to consume in order to produce x units of deployment / work. Everyone else not capable can stay home and live in a virtual reality headset and be delivered basic ration nutrition. If you don't comply with rules you'll be locked out of your building and your bank account frozen.

The wealthy elite of course will carry on as normal on their private jets, yachts, private islands, fortified mansions.

LittleMissSunshiner · 06/12/2023 23:12

ImNunTheWiser · 06/12/2023 22:04

From that link:

Setting up software to automatically send details to the DWP of every claimant account that goes over the capital limit or is used abroad for more than four weeks will be very straightforward for banks

and

Any bank failing to collect and pass on data to the DWP will be subject to heavy fines

This is fucking laughable. The banks may technically have the data but ‘it will be very straightforward’ no. They will have to spend millions on updating their IT systems (of which there will be hundreds across the 15 UK banks), testing them, reporting etc and all under threat of heavy fines? UK banks will tell the government to get fucked. Or failing that, they will simply refuse to let any DWP benefit claimant have a bank account based on the risk of defaulting and being fined.

Edited

Nah each bank will just employ a DWP Compliance Officer to ensure that all info requested is sent.

They won't want to buck the system and they are probably quite happy to have regular predictable monthly incomes being banked such as benefits claimants do.

They'll package it up neatly into 'benefit claimaint accounts' so you can be warned if your account is going over x amount or if you haven't used your account for a while and it's about to trigger a DWP flare.

CouchCat · 06/12/2023 23:22

@LittleMissSunshiner

The main thing they're going to use the 'social credit score' and all this analysis for in the future is to build the case for local climate emergency lockdowns (this is already well underway), 'walkable 15 minute cities' (great, but you can't actually leave), measuring energy usage down to minute detail and charging people for their consumption of literally everything, preventing freedom of travel (ie so many travel energy points per annum), limiting personal movement and personal consumption based on your 'worth' to society, monitoring work proficiency in a way that goes far beyond time and motion studies.

We will be but factory farm cattle at this point. They want to know how many units of energy we'll need to consume in order to produce x units of deployment / work. Everyone else not capable can stay home and live in a virtual reality headset and be delivered basic ration nutrition. If you don't comply with rules you'll be locked out of your building and your bank account frozen.

The wealthy elite of course will carry on as normal on their private jets, yachts, private islands, fortified mansions.

I really hope this is satire.

BeyondMeasure · 06/12/2023 23:29

Would they have ALL bank accounts in that person's name or just the one that any pension or benefit is paid into?

jcyclops · 06/12/2023 23:40

According to reports, one of the reasons for targeting pensioners who do not get pension credit is when they live abroad. About half a million state pensioners (out of approx 12.5m total) live abroad in countries where their pension is frozen at the time they leave the UK, so they do not receive annual increases. This applies to some popular destinations such as Australia and Canada. There may be a number who have moved to these countries, and having not informed the DWP, are receiving annual increases when they should not be.

As pensioners living in Europe and a few other countries do receive annual increases, many think freezing pensions for emigrants is wrong anyway, never mind this new snooping proposal.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 06/12/2023 23:46

ImNunTheWiser · 06/12/2023 21:31

It’s not based on selling over £1k of goods. It’s based on whether you’re ‘trading’ (ie making stuff to sell, or buying items to sell on at a profit) and whether you’re in profit of more than £1k. It’s unlikely to ever affect anyone just selling their own second hand stuff, no matter how much they make.

So, if someone who is struggling to pay their bills decides to sell some of theirs own possessions on eBay to help pay the bills, and makes £2,000.00 on them, the original cost of those items would have had to have been less than £1,000.00 in order for them to have made a £1k ‘profit’ on them.

Show quote history

It's gross income not profit

ImNunTheWiser · 06/12/2023 23:57

Neitheronethingnortheother · 06/12/2023 23:46

It's gross income not profit

Show quote history

What is?

Neitheronethingnortheother · 07/12/2023 00:00

ImNunTheWiser · 06/12/2023 23:57

What is?

Show quote history

The £1000 limit, its based on gross income of £1000 not profit as your post stated

ImNunTheWiser · 07/12/2023 00:07

Neitheronethingnortheother · 07/12/2023 00:00

The £1000 limit, its based on gross income of £1000 not profit as your post stated

Show quote history

That only relates to those who would be regarding as ‘trading’ on eBay, as I stated, not those ‘selling their old stuff’, which is what the previous posters were asking. Actually, there is one exception which would be an individual item over £6k, although not a car, apparently.

Fraudornot · 10/12/2023 20:58

I wish the govt would put its efforts into tracking the bank accounts of people like Michelle Mone who has siphoned off £29million from NHS funding for PPE. She is only one - if they targeted more people like this then benefits fraud would pale into insignificance.

XenoBitch · 10/12/2023 21:49

ImNunTheWiser · 07/12/2023 00:07

That only relates to those who would be regarding as ‘trading’ on eBay, as I stated, not those ‘selling their old stuff’, which is what the previous posters were asking. Actually, there is one exception which would be an individual item over £6k, although not a car, apparently.

Show quote history

I have a friend who makes and sells craft bits (ceramics) and she can make £1000 per year without having to declare it or even be registered as self employed.

I asked my work coach about this, as I make some craft bits and they are clogging up my house. I would literally just want to cover my costs so I can buy more materials. I was told I had to register as self employed (even though I would make about £30 each month), declare all earnings in my journal, and I would be deducted 63p (I think it is lower now) for every pound.
So it would be a ball ache and pointless for me to bother.

Robott · 10/12/2023 22:04

@XenoBitch so how come your friend doesn’t have to declare her earnings but you would?
I know a fair few people who do cash in hand jobs/ sell homemade products and none of them are set up as a business.
Just sell your stuff and keep it quiet, unless you’re making 1000s I doubt anyone would notice/care.

Rummikub · 10/12/2023 22:12

Prob because friend isn’t on benefits.

And I think it’ll be difficult to do this on the quiet if bank accounts are being checked.

When is this starting?

XenoBitch · 10/12/2023 22:34

Robott · 10/12/2023 22:04

@XenoBitch so how come your friend doesn’t have to declare her earnings but you would?
I know a fair few people who do cash in hand jobs/ sell homemade products and none of them are set up as a business.
Just sell your stuff and keep it quiet, unless you’re making 1000s I doubt anyone would notice/care.

It because I am on UC, and my friend isn't.

Robott · 10/12/2023 23:26

@XenoBitch oh right. But you could receive cash for products, then no one would know?

Im not purposely telling you to break the law, but let’s face it, most people do it to some degree.
My days of being honest and law abiding are long gone.

XenoBitch · 10/12/2023 23:33

Robott · 10/12/2023 23:26

@XenoBitch oh right. But you could receive cash for products, then no one would know?

Im not purposely telling you to break the law, but let’s face it, most people do it to some degree.
My days of being honest and law abiding are long gone.

Ha yes, I totally understand that. But I would be so scared of getting caught.
It is horrible relying on the state to live, it really is.

Robott · 10/12/2023 23:42

I used to feel like that but as I’ve gotten older I care less and take a few risks. Not quite the same, but we now regularly not pay for parking, and if we get a ticket just accept it and pay the fine. It’s quite liberating.

Circularargument · 11/12/2023 10:20

Robott · 10/12/2023 23:42

I used to feel like that but as I’ve gotten older I care less and take a few risks. Not quite the same, but we now regularly not pay for parking, and if we get a ticket just accept it and pay the fine. It’s quite liberating.

Edited

Liberating? Erm OK . Fucking dim if you ask me.

LonelyandsadChristmas · 11/12/2023 10:25

Should also be allowed to check private bank accounts of politicians. They claim huge expenses .

Robott · 11/12/2023 12:02

Circularargument · 11/12/2023 10:20

Liberating? Erm OK . Fucking dim if you ask me.

Show quote history

A bit rude! Nothing dim about saving money imo. Maybe you’re not counting every penny but not everyone is on a mumsnet salary.
As I said above, I've spend my entire life being honest and law abiding and for what?
Im not chucking anymore money at local councils than I have to, just for them to waste it and line their own pockets.

ImNunTheWiser · 11/12/2023 12:29

XenoBitch · 10/12/2023 21:49

I have a friend who makes and sells craft bits (ceramics) and she can make £1000 per year without having to declare it or even be registered as self employed.

I asked my work coach about this, as I make some craft bits and they are clogging up my house. I would literally just want to cover my costs so I can buy more materials. I was told I had to register as self employed (even though I would make about £30 each month), declare all earnings in my journal, and I would be deducted 63p (I think it is lower now) for every pound.
So it would be a ball ache and pointless for me to bother.

Show quote history

I am 100% certain you have been given the incorrect information if you are going to make <1K per tax year. It’s irrelevant whether you’re employed or on benefits.
If however you go over £1K then the nature of your trading (buying materials to make items to sell on) would have to be reported in the way you stated.

Beezknees · 11/12/2023 12:58

Nope, not happy about it. Not because I have anything to hide but because I am not comfortable with the way the country is headed