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Original poster

Are you happy for the government to automatically have the ability to have a look at your bank account?

350 replies

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 04/12/2023 19:37

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving

  • UC
  • a pension
  • child benefit
  • PIP etc…
How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

New legislation gives government permission to snoop on your bank account

A clause in the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill hands the DWP power to inspect the bank accounts.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

OP posts:
Startingagainandagain · 04/12/2023 21:27

How about looking into the bank accounts of Michelle Mone, Dido Harding and Boris Johnson?

Because it seems to me that if anyone has taken taxpayer money fraudulently it is that lot...

And no, the DWP should have no right to just randomly look into people's accounts.

This right wing government is simply trying to control us: they are going after the right to protest, right to strike, right to privacy, workplace rights,...

This is really sinister and we need to kick them out of power.

Nelliemellie · 04/12/2023 21:27

What about appointees who have vulnerable child/adult with disabilities, they manage their benefits, but also have jobs and their own savings in those accounts? Intrusion.

oobladay · 04/12/2023 21:28

No I wouldn't be happy about this at all. Although in saying that it cost an absolute fortune in ink, postage and 3 x travel costs to the nearest branch of a bank we'd never used when universal credit recently decided that we had an undisclosed bank account (which it turns out never existed) and required 5 years worth of bank statements on all accounts belonging to myself and my partner. Had to buy a new printer half way through too. Really wish I'd never opted out of paper statements!

I did ask if there was a way of emailing pdfs securely but apparently not. Maybe they could look into doing that instead for accounts that they have concerns about.

Most people I know are just about getting by. Myself and my partner work full time - though I am term time only, and are still in receipt of benefits.

If the concern is fraudulent claims then there are surely less invasive ways.

SpidersAreShitheads · 04/12/2023 21:36

I've been self-employed for around 14 years now and have always submitted a tax return. One year I was chosen for the HMRC random check and had to submit a fuck ton of documents for them to nose through. All very inconvenient and worrying (it was, of course, all fine) but it's just part of a reasonable process. Although it was time-consuming and a nuisance, HMRC was transparent, fair and good to deal with.

A year ago DP suddenly collapsed and has been unable to work. Might not ever be able to return to work. Since February we've been on Universal Credit.

I've been utterly gobsmacked and how difficult the UC process is, and how incredibly unreasonable many of the decisions are. There's a lot of box-ticking and forced actions which make literally no sense at all. Some of their decisions are deeply unfair but the system is so exhausting to navigate, there's just no point appealing.

The idea that the cretins at UC could poke through my bank account is horrifying. I don't trust them to not to misinterpret something and stop our much-needed payments on a whim. Based on the last year, I can tell you they are absolute bastards who don't give a fuck about being proportionate, reasonable, and fair.

I have absolutely nothing to hide. I wish I did have a magical hidden income or oodles of savings. My objections are purely because I've now got first-hand experience of how awful they are to deal with and I don't trust them with information.

Also, for everyone supporting it because of the level of fraud - a lot of this is cash in hand type work which won't ever touch a bank account, so it's barely going to touch the sides.

Just another way in which the government is overstepping the mark with what it thinks it should have the power to do. Everyone should be worried about where this might lead.

IcedupTulip · 04/12/2023 21:36

I’m not liking the idea as it seems so intrusive but then again I suppose it doesn’t really matter as have nothing to hide.

User136921 · 04/12/2023 21:42

Goodornot · 04/12/2023 21:27

They already can to a certain extent.

When the interest rates went up, I got a letter telling me I'd paid too little tax and had exceeded the personal interest allowance.

I never told them, but the govt just knows.

The banks report savings interest to HMRC, if you are PAYE, you just repay it through your tax code

NettleTea · 04/12/2023 21:46

Tarantella6 · 04/12/2023 21:04

I wouldn't mind if they used the power for good, like fathers evading child maintenance but they won't they'll spend hours analysing what someone on UC could have spent £5.81 in Waitrose on.

or why the hell they were even allowed to go IN Waitrose

TheHateIsNotGood · 04/12/2023 21:49

My own experiences as a claimant of various 'benefits' over the years where many of the 'anti' experiences are similar to my own.

Basically, just as spiders so elequently puts, often a "fuck-ton" of evidence needs providing to various 'jobsworths'.

However they get it, these govt agencies will get it; I suggest that it's most cost-effective if all these paper 'proofs/evidences' were automatically obtained. Not just from a paper-reduction/environmental perspective...

but it would also reduce the jobsworth payroll (funded by the taxpayer) if they didn't have any trickle of work to pretend that they work 'hard' at, if they even work at all.

annahay · 04/12/2023 21:54

Not happy at all. I'm not sure the child benefit is worth the loss of privacy.

Morphingirl · 04/12/2023 22:04

I have PIP and I also work. My pip covers most of the disability things I need and my pay covers my rent etc and treats . How are they going to differentiate between what is disability stuff and what is peoples own money and treats etc

User136921 · 04/12/2023 22:06

There was an uproar on X about it but the anger seemed to be more about pension being called a benefit than the government snooping of bank accounts

SarahShorty · 04/12/2023 22:06

ChaToilLeam · 04/12/2023 21:06

You have to be an absolute idiot to think that inviting this level of state intrusion into your private, personal matters is a good thing to do.

Doesn’t matter that you have nothing to hide. It’s your own private business and unless there is suspicion of criminal behaviour, nobody should have the power to monitor this.

Invite them in, you’ll never get them out.

That last sentence is very true particularly in my experience with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Sahana28 · 04/12/2023 22:17

DWP have said that they will access a minimum amount of data as they will be checking for 3 things: savings, whether your abroad and clamining benefits fraudulently and whether claimants are moving their money in offshore accounts.
They are not going to care about where you shop or who you give/recieve money from (unless if your balance will be over £6000)
I get that this whole thing is unnerving but what we say wont make a difference. It's done now

Sahana28 · 04/12/2023 22:18

OpenLanes · 04/12/2023 22:11

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance.

Is this accurate? If so it looks like day to day data won't be looked at, just an automatic report if someone is abroad for more than 4 weeks or over the benefit saving threshold?

Yes it is

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 04/12/2023 22:18

They could make better use of time, and draw back more money, by clawing back the money that MPs etc hide abroad (thinking of Panama papers).

LittleMissSunshiner · 04/12/2023 22:21

I thought they already could!?!

NeverDropYourMooncup · 04/12/2023 22:26

OpenLanes · 04/12/2023 22:11

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance.

Is this accurate? If so it looks like day to day data won't be looked at, just an automatic report if someone is abroad for more than 4 weeks or over the benefit saving threshold?

That's a stepped rollout. When you're introducing a new system, you start with a couple of easily definable parameters to look for so that the system doesn't nope out as soon as it goes live.

Once that's up and running (and you're hopefully adapting to the inevitable glitches), you add in a couple more things, increase the complexity, make a few changes to the queries/look at how the algorithm is performing, make a few mistakes, maybe find out how a handful of outages happen/are fixed/workarounds make up plausible excuses to complete numpties who think you're some sort of magician speaking invocations to the God of Data, point out that a is inherently impossible when you're also required to do b and you get back 'don't care. Want a, b, e-g and whilst we're at it, let's have t-w as well'. And obviously, if they don't like the data you're pulling, they expect you to make it fit what they wanted to see - and if the infrastructure isn't coping with the demands, you spend months trying to convince people who don't want to listen to you because it will cost money that it is going to fall over without x.

Eventually, somebody with very specific KPIs for their appraisal gives you a direct instruction to Get It All Live Now, despite your explanations of the limitations, issues and whatnots and you eventually, because their performance related pay award is dependent upon it, roll your eyes, cross your fingers and let it go wondering whether you're about to trigger the Rise of the Machines and be forever more nicknamed Myles Dyson.

CandyLeBonBon · 04/12/2023 22:28

Thelnebriati · 04/12/2023 21:12

This. Don't forget this system will be run and administered by humans who will all have their own interpretations of the policy and we only have to look at UC sanctions/DWP assessments to see how badly that can fail people.

They are planning to use AI to trigger an investigation. Hopefully they'll remember to train it to recognise banking errors and not treat them as fraud, because GDPR rules mean banks aren't very helpful when money turns up unexpectedly in your account. You are expected to sit on it and not spend it.

I mean how will it work when saving for things like Xmas/birthdays/holidays/annual car costs etc? I put money aside each week so I don't go into debt for these things. Presumably that would all be scrutinised? Decisions made?

Or are we supposed to have nothing but the clothes on our backs like the proles we are?

I currently only get child benefit as my tax credits is a zero claim now but even though I'm eligible for a small bit of UC, I'm not sure I can face this level of conjecture about exactly what I spend my money on (and it's nothing bad but I don't want to be sanctioned for one too many takeaways per month for example!)

Fieldofbrokenpromises · 04/12/2023 22:31

Iam4eels · 04/12/2023 19:39

It's disgusting. They should only be able to do so where there is probable cause and a warrant has been obtained via the courts not just "because". There is huge potential for it to go wrong in so many ways and ultimately it will only serve to punish vulnerable people for the crime of being vulnerable.

^this 100%

Longma · 04/12/2023 22:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

KnittedCardi · 04/12/2023 22:34

HMRC already run a system called Connect which trawls various data and seeks out likely tax evaders.

Portakalkedi · 04/12/2023 22:38

I'm not thrilled about it, but as long as there are people who lie and cheat them maybe not a bad thing. If you have nothing to hide why object?

Angrymum22 · 04/12/2023 22:43

I worked in NHS dentistry. We would regularly have irate patients on the phone who had been fined for claiming exemption when they weren’t exempt. Before the merging of all the computer systems who knows how much was fraudulently claimed.
I think that prescriptions are the same now.
Bit by bit the infrastructure is being put in place to pick up fraud. I would imagine if someone claims fraudulently in one area it will flag up an investigation.
I don’t think for one minute they will be interested in people who don’t claim benefits. HMRC double check the child allowance and if you’re not entitled it is deduct via your tax code.

If you have nothing to hide why worry.

mantyzer · 04/12/2023 22:52

Because you have no idea how it may be used in the future.
Because DWP make mistakes all the time.
Because government systems time and time again are guilty of data breaches.

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