Are you happy for the government to automatically have the ability to have a look at your bank account?

[LeRougeEtLeNoir]

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving

• UC
• a pension
• child benefit
• PIP etc…

How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

It's the people who haven't thought it through properly. You'd have to be quite stupid to think this was a good idea.

And statements on MN that pensions are a whole £800 a month, riches untold!

I’m also wondering the impact this would have a the justice system and policing.

If it’s ok to monitor bank accounts in case if fraud, then it will also be ok to monitor all internet, telephone, emails etc… in case if fraud/organising a strike or a protest (already illegal to even have bits of woods in your car that could potentially be used fur a protest) right? Same idea, just a different media.

It's another example of removing liberties of the many under the guise of punishing a few.

Of course benefit cheats and people who don't pay proper CM need to be wheedled out and punished but we also need to question why we all end up losing certain freedoms.

It's happened with so many, many things over the years. The drip, drip, drip of having our power and control removed and we aren't merely agreeing to it. We're begging for it. It needs to be questioned otherwise where does it end?

OK Half the fucking Cabinet probably ARENT owing or evading Child Maintenance. 😏

Absolutely agree. Staggered that so many people are willing to allow such invasion of privacy. I don't have anything to hide and have done nothing wrong but I am absolutely not happy with the government having this degree of access.

Where does it end? Cameras and microphones in houses? I mean, surely if you have nothing to hide and it reduces fraud that would be ok?

If they were doing it for everyone, including the mega-wealthy tax dodgers, the men avoiding paying child maintenance, and those claiming state benefits, then I'd be willing to submit to it as I think that would be fair.

I agree. It's a very annoying double standard.

The government routinely overspends and runs up huge debts, because there is a constant stream of money from the taxpayer. So much money was printed during lockdown leading to record inflation. It's still printed to inflate its way out of debt.

By contrast...
A taxpayer overspends and misses a single payment, threatening letters pile up on their doormat.

It's okay when they do it, you see.

It has little to do with benefits fraud and everything to do with state control. A lot of benefit fraud is probably cash in hand work that doesn’t impact peoples bank balances.

@Scarletttulips "nobody would have time for that"

Not true. I have worked for local councils dealing with Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit claims, and assessors go through claimant's financial statements with a fine-toothed comb and question everything.

They have a 'data-matching service' which all banks and building societies comply with, which regularly checks what accounts claimants hold and how much money is in them.

This is only right, of course, because Local Authorities have a duty to safeguard taxpayer's money and make sure it is only paid to those who are genuinely entitled to it.

Same with HMRC, who twice in three years demanded from me 52 weeks' worth of proof of my child care costs, because I was getting help with these expenses through my Working Tax Credit award.

Again, fair enough.

My problem is that the wealthy are not expected to provide similar evidence of not defrauding the taxpayer.

Billions in tax are deceitfully avoided and criminally evaded and it costs our economy - and all of us - exponentially more than benefit fraud does.

If the government's motive is really to stop fraud, why don't they literally follow the money?

Gladly if we can also look at the Royal Family's - they receive benefits too.

Absolutely this!!!

Isn't it over 40/50% working people who claim benefits?
It is a wonder they have time to commit fraud.
What a spiteful, suspicious, horrid little nation we have become. This enduring presumption that those with the least are destroying the economy. I suppose supporting such ideologies might bolster one's pride in having someone to look down on. However else can a failing society get it's kicks?

think it’s fine, but should also apply to people who are potentially dodging paying tax, and especially absent fathers who manage to convince the departments responsible for child maintenance that they’re only earning £50 a month in their self employed jobs. The net needs to be widened.

I completely disagree with it. And if someone is hellbent on being a benefit cheat, they will get around it with cash in hand work etc.

Which won't work when society goes cashless.

I would put money on most of the posters on here saying they have no problem with it , would have something to say if even their spouse had a rummage through their handbag or phone would have plenty to say about that .

Repeating myself there but ate you also happy for your parents spending/bank accounts to be looked at with a fine comb because they receive their state pension?
Because they are potential fraudsters like UC claimants right?

No? So why do you think the government wants access to those bank accounts too?
Theyre nit setting up that way fur fun. They are looking for information. And ways to tell people they dint deserve to get what they get.
What will it be? Less state pension if you receive a private pension?

Do you trust them not to fuck up??
Government departments and IT are routinely hacked, HMRC makes mistakes and they had to withdraw NHS data sharing because it was so insecure bit coin miners were stealing and selling it.
That's before you look at the real reason behind this- in Europe GDPR prevents governments from abusing your private information in this way. But now we are out of Europe there's a push to weaken GDPR and make us into a "3rd country" like Australia. Apps and software from 3rd countries are incredibly difficult to use in the data sharing zones because they are insecure. But if you are a speculator who wants to make money stealing data and selling it on ( on shares for instance or someone with interest in say Cambridge Analytica ) it's a huge opportunity.
It will also threaten our national security.
This is a huge infringement of our protections and we need to be very wary.

Slippery slope.

You know that AI that triggers Barclays (and other banks) to put a stop on your card because they think a transaction is likely to be fraudulent? Useful there, albeit occasionally inconvenient. Also automatically puts purchases into particular categories to 'help with budgeting' and triggers more targeted marketing.

Few tweaks and it monitors what you are buying. Like men's socks, a man's jumper, maybe some non feminine toiletries like razor blades or non floral shower gel - oh, your benefit has been stopped because we have evidence there is a partner living with you.

Your card was used five times in Swanage when you live in Staines, your benefit has been stopped because you're on holiday when you should be a) looking for work b) you aren't supposed to be able to travel and c) One of your purchases 2 years ago was in Mountain Warehouse for walking boots and one last month was for ski socks, so you must be planning to walk the Southwest Coast Path, not going to your cousin's funeral.

Of course, it will also pick up on older people living abroad but coming back for NHS care - they've used their card in Spain for 9 months, so the AI automatically flags them up as not resident in the UK.

Doesn't take much thought to realise that this will be incredibly easy to have running away in the background with extremely limited human involvement.

Data is fascinating. But has no ethical or moral stance - that's the preserve of the humans wanting to harness it and is by no means guaranteed. It can facilitate great good and great harms, depending upon the motivations of the humans behind it.

Well totally fine as long as they hold everyone to the same high standards who claim any public money. Starting with MPs and their very generous allowances, cheap meals and drinks, overnight allowances then paying family members etc. etc. Obviously would not be tarring people with the same brush but there is evidence some take advantage and actually choose to live this way.....

Then also all the private companies who are run by individuals that have links to MPs who facilitate various outsourced (privitised) services such as care homes/foster placements/home cares/ infrastructure. Maybe could make sure they are not 'on the take' and also find loopholes to take money away from 'the honest tax payers'' like benefit scroungers do. Obviously only needed because some people abuse the system and 'if they have nothing to hide it should not be an issue'.

they had to withdraw NHS data sharing because it was so insecure bit coin miners were stealing and selling it.

You realise that they’ve just sold all our data again about 1 week ago right?
Sold to an American healthcare insurance company I believe

I have no issue with this, i have nothing to hide