Work situation - is this reasonable?

[Floofydawg]

I'm in a mid senior role in financial services. Work part time (4 days, not condensed) but still get a full time workload done. Am expected to travel around once a month for work which ends up in me doing more than my paid hours that week. I don't get that time back and I still have to get my work done.

Next Monday I've been asked to travel for a department wide 'away day' which will basically just be a talking shop. This would mean me leaving home at 6.30am and not getting back til around 8pm. I've said I'm not going and my manager is trying to pressure me. AIBU to stick to my guns?

Have you tried saying to management that you would love to come but you've planned your workload that week and if they want you then you need to drop X Y or Z task or something needs relocating across the team and so can they give you a steer?

That puts the ball in their court to actually have to say that they want you to go above your contracted hours, to which you may wish to say that the menopause is catching up to you and you cant do extra hours the way you used to, it's part of the reason you are part time and see what they say.

If you're relatively senior, and the company needs you, i don't even understand how this is a "discussion" and you aren't just doing this day, then not doing the relevant number of hours on days over the rest of the week.

If you are doing all the hours, renegotiate your salary to FTE on compressed hours as PP said - or regular hours and buy in help.

As i tell the young women i mentor (the young men i mentor don't need this) "what would a man in your position do"?

What does gender have to do with it? CBA can apply to anyone.

I think OP should think about the staff below her who would be more than happy to take her senior role for the same money and would be willing to put in the commitment. I do think there is some complacency (she may have been in the role too long) being shown here.

Maybe time to downsize her career and get a less demanding job.

You work a full fte load and get paid for 4 days, you’ve done a few of these days with extra hours already this year, i wouldn’t give if it’s a work day. You are paid peanuts for the industry you’re in, the company doesn’t value staff and they really owe you days in lieu, take one. If you need a doctors certificate get one- call it menopause call it stress, call it whatever you like but you deserve a paid day at home. Tell your manager your personal development goal is to work harder this year at repaying the employee value proposition so aptly communicated by him forgetting you aren’t full time. And suggest a meeting with him the day after for you to carve out pieces of your role to fit it back into 4 days. Then he should shut up about the away day.

Because we know from studies, and i know from experience, that women are far more likely than men to put up with a shit situation at work and not make the approach about more money or less work.

That is why.

I never fail to be depressed by these threads.

So many women essentially telling another woman that she should be grateful to have a job that pays more than minimum wage and that she should be willing to put in extra hours that she isn't paid for because other people work long hours for less money.

Men would never tell each other these things.

Thank you, @MargotBamborough - it is definitely a sex-based problem in many many cases.

I think you are choosing the wrong hill to die on.

I would not be doing five days work and getting paid for four, week after week. Stop that shit right now.

Attending an away day is something you should suck up. Do adapt the rest of your working week to clawback some of the time though.

Par the course (if occasional). It doesn't make it right though, as it's expected and additional hours/effort are not usually appreciated!

That is true, but are many of the young men you mentor menopausal? Not every day/year is a lean in year. I agree she should take action, but I think the action is that the op should shelve 20% of her workload, come in at 9, leave at 5 and do whatever fits in working at a reasonable pace. When people say extra days like these are included in a normal, a full workload allows for extra days like these, ie that some days you don’t get any actual workload done. The ops doesn’t.

If it’s your non working day will have to ask to swap around. But I’m in a similar position and do similar.

If thats your normal working day then yes you need to go - perhaps instead of no you could of said - happy to attend, it will take me over my working hours next week so could we look at my taking some time back over xmas (or something!)

@greencheetah this!

I think it will be in your contract that your hours are xxxx but that additional flexibility may be required from time to time. Obviously not the exact wording of it.

I do completely understand though - it is annoying. I WFH too and visit clients during my working day, timing it so I can still do school runs/pick up kids from minder. But now and again (I’d say around 10 times a year) there are other work commitments that require me to leave the house at 4/5am, sometimes with an overnight stay, often long days - and yes I also do not get this time back. But it’s in my contract

I started off thinking YWBU. However the additional info you gave that this is the 6th of the year and your salary level - as you say its decent but not megabucks - has changed my mind.

II would go back to your manager and say yes of course you will attend, but naturally the time spent at the away day will mean that other items of work will be delayed. If he says thats not acceptable then its a case of "oh well. never mind, maybe I'll make it to the next one"

I was part time for a while before retiring and like you wasn't career focussed. I found the best way of establishing a reasonable workload was to turn the issue back on your manager. If you've too much work for the time available ask him to do the prioritizing. "I've got X, Y and Z to do which is not possible in the time I've got, what would you like me to prioritize?". Its difficult at first, but after a while I found that your manager will stop putting you in a position of too much work and not enough time.

Edited to add: also working PT 4 days a week is in some ways the worst of all worlds. As you've found you're basically expected to do a full time work load in 4 days. I would think about either going to 3 days a week or doing full time compressed to 4 days (which would probably not change the hours you actually work by much).

65k FTE, for financial services, isn't a high wage.

Yes, this is a reasonable approach.

When I have things like conferences and training sessions I just make it clear that I have reduced time to work on regular matters that week. No way would I be trying to fit five days' worth of work into three or four days. If I were part-time and only paid for four days per week, and I had an away day one week, I would make it clear that I only had three days that week to get actual work done.

If the expectation was that I would do five days' worth of work that week I would call my manager and ask where I was expected to find the time to do this given that one day is my non working day and another day was the away day which I hadn't been given permission to skip.

Right?!

you want to push this as not being sex-based but it is.
I've been through menopause, thankyou, and I've been doing this a long time.

I know what i'm talking about.

OP can decide for herself what she wants to do. As someone who has seen this kind of scenario over and over again, i know that the workload is going to stay the same. OP is already doing it. Based on that she has 2 choices: renegotiate salary to fit hours. Or work to rule. Which she should know how to do as a senior person, but still isn't doing it.

So - money, and buy in help seems to be the sensible option. Or suddenly grow a backbone?

Do you not get it back as time off in lieu? Do you get paid overtime?

Perfectly normal in my line of work (seemingly not that cushy consultancy!)

When people say extra days like these are included in a normal, a full workload allows for extra days like these, ie that some days you don’t get any actual workload done. The ops doesn’t.

This is the crux of the problem. I could force the issue and take the time back but that leaves me further behind on work. To further put this into context, my boss is trying to get me to take more work on due to another member of the team going on extended leave. I've given him a hard 'no' but it hasn't gone down very well.

you need to have a meeting with your boss. Show him your workload and how that breaks down in terms of hours.

Let boss then tell you how to fit the extra in without increasing your hours/salary.

Do you want to keep your hours as they are: just keep saying no, and keep telling everyone what you are prioritising and what someone else needs to take over

If you are going to continue to keep working more, get more money for it.

@Floofydawg I think you've clearly had enough of this job/employer.

They are not asking anything even remotely unreasonable if you are in a mid-senior role.
Perhaps you are at the low end of your band because you aren't being a team player or they get the impression this is a job for you, not a career where you're 100% dedicated?

As to you doing a full-time role in 4 days a week - that is another matter but generally, if you've accepted all the work for a long time and said nothing they probably assume all is fine regarding your workload.

You need to keep pushing back.

Tell your boss that your workload does not fit into a part-time contract and say that you feel your complaints are falling on deaf ears because instead of giving you a workload which actually fits into the hours you are paid for, he is trying to give you more work.

Tell him that if he doesn't have enough staff to cover the work that needs doing, he needs to hire more staff.

Tell him that if he doesn't sort this problem out then you will be the one going off on extended sick leave.