Work situation - is this reasonable?

[Floofydawg]

I'm in a mid senior role in financial services. Work part time (4 days, not condensed) but still get a full time workload done. Am expected to travel around once a month for work which ends up in me doing more than my paid hours that week. I don't get that time back and I still have to get my work done.

Next Monday I've been asked to travel for a department wide 'away day' which will basically just be a talking shop. This would mean me leaving home at 6.30am and not getting back til around 8pm. I've said I'm not going and my manager is trying to pressure me. AIBU to stick to my guns?

Entirely reasonable to expect you to attend. If you want to send a message you are pissed off, disengaged and thinking about options for getting out, then dont go.

It isn't surprising you don't advance in salary if you give off this impression. It sounds like you're doing a good job so why don't you go and use it as an opportunity to sing your own praises to some higher ups.

Lots of mid level people are taken for granted by their immediate boss whilst being valuable to an organisation. When I go to these things I have a list of senior people I want to get around and make sure they know who I am, even if I don't actively pitch them all the good things I am doing.

You sound very resentful that you do a full time workload in part time hours. I don't know what bit of financial services you work in but this is very standard in my area of professional services. Is it the case that you should be managing other people to deliver the work?

If you aren't working 5 days a week I think you have to realise that a full time job would come with even more work.

Just because your other colleague is also disengaged and making childcare related excuses doesn't mean you should also half ass your job.

FTE Salary is good so it's not the kind of job you can mooch in.

Not doing something your manager asks is a good way to get a rep.

Certainly there's a lot of redundancy drives in my sector right now. All of the big 4 are firing and mid tier firms are on recruitment freezes. It's something to consider whether your company is making lots of money after salary costs on your area. You might be glad of redundancy money but equally can you get back into high paid role in your 50s? There's a lot of sexism and ageism about.

@Clytherow Ok but working for several organisations is what matters. Not just doing your old job.

That poster didn't refer to only doing their old job, they referred to other roles as well.

I work 4 days/week (80%) in a senior role. My work is respectful of this by and large and so when it comes to exceptional things I’m happy to be more flexible, provided I have enough notice to arrange childcare. And I would absolutely take a day back as TOIL - there’s not a farts chance in hell they’d get an entire day free from me (and I work for a non-profit!). So in isolation I don’t think it’s an unreasonable request, provided you get the time/pay back. But it sounds like it’s part of a wider issue. In which case I’d pick your battles - you clearly need to renegotiate your boundaries with work (and that boundary might stop at their front door) so try to situate your choices about this in that wider process if you can. And good luck with it, you deserve better.

I can see why you’re generally pissed off, but in seniorish professional jobs you are expected to do over standard hours and I’m pretty sure your contract will state that.

It sounds like you’re getting a raw deal overall though. If you have the upper hand how can you use this - going up to FT hours but doing 2 days at home?

If the away day is on your normal working day and as you are management then I would expect you to go if I was your line manager. If it's not on your normal work day then there maybe some debate but I would still expect you to be there.

These are not unusual hours for a management role and it's not every day.

It’s your job to go… so do your job and go.

If you’re annoyed about the extra hours then you need to make this clear to your manager that you’ll be taking the time back at some point.

We have away days as my team is based across three locations. I honestly can’t imagine saying no I’m not going…

Those of you who are saying I need to go because I'm relatively senior, how much would you expect to get paid for this kind of commitment? I honestly don't think I get paid enough for this.

People on MN seem to think anything over 35k is megabucks TBH.

My DH is on about 170k, successful in his field, and still basically only works his hours.

Does your employer have a menopause policy? Maybe adjustments can be made.

YABU

Isn't working over and above your hours expected in a senior management role? There will be employees having to travel on this away day who will be paid far less and have more work.

You will get a lot of people on here who say your FTE is a high salary, because they are comparing you to nurses and teachers and generally to people in completely unrelated professions.

Without knowing more about exactly what it is you do and what sort of company you work for, I would say that your salary does not seem particularly high for a mid-senior role in financial services.

How long have you been in your role? Have you ever done any benchmarking or contacted a recruiter to find out what the market rate is for your job?

And more importantly, would you be OK with what is being expected of you if you were paid more than you are, or is it the workload itself and the demands on your time which are making you unhappy?

I mean you can but if you think not doing these things doesn’t make a glass ceiling you’re wrong.

I get an extra half day's leave as a director for anything which requires work late in the evening and an overnight stay.

If people have to travel for a few hours there and back for something and a considerable distance you would be allowed to stay in a hotel.

I don't think you can say whether you get paid enough for this particular day, or even regular travel.

The hours/travel aspect of your job sounds a lot like where we work. Everyone travels several times a month and often does long days. That's from the graduate trainees on under £30k to the managers and experienced technical staff, on £50-60k.

What's relevant is what your salary is for your whole job. What does your employer pay, compared with everyone else and what other aspects are better/worse - hours, pension, bonuses etc.

If you feel undervalued, what else is available and what are the pay and conditions like there. Because unless people are leaving for better pay and/or conditions elsewhere, there's not a lot of incentive for your company to bother improving things.

Employers should be taking steps to include as many people as possible and not exclude anyone with caring responsibilities, no matter how senior.

If employees all keep jumping through their hoops, nothing will change and the glass ceiling will certainly remain.

OP is on 65K FTE. This is in the top 5-10% of salaries, so yes, it's megabucks to the vast majority of people.

I’d refuse to go on principle over this. Children often seem to trump everything else in work scenarios and it’s simply unfair.
And I don’t mean the colleague should go, I mean OP and she should equally be excused.

It's not megabucks for someone working in a mid senior role in financial services, which is the only relevant comparator here.

Typo: Personally for MY job I would consider that reasonable.

Based on follow ups I earn a lot more though.
for £65k I would be doing my hours and not much more so I’d maybe get to the day for 10 and leave at 4 or whatever.

I wouldn’t be busting a gut for £65k and I certainly wouldn’t work my day off…

OP is mid management not senior. I'd stick to your guns and not go if there are childcare issues. The more you give, the more they will take. Know your boundaries and keep to them @Floofydawg

@Floofydawg It's not really about your pay- it's an all staff event on a day you work. Therefore the expectation is you attend. One day with slightly longer hours for travel is not unusual.

Now I don't know what policies your orgnanisation has for claiming unusual travel time back. At mine junior grades can claim TOIL, senior staff are usually just trusted/expected to manage it - eg start a bit later the next day or have a early Friday afternoon finish.

As everyone else has said this is not the unreasoanble thing, the unreasonable thing is you are being expected to fit a full time job in to part time hours. Stop obsessing about the occasional longer away day and deal wth the fact you are essentially being underpaid for the work you are doing.

"less well paid people do more hours" is not the gotcha you think it is or the point.

In fact it is the point for OP - other people doing more? that is their battle to fight.

Also just do your work and the four days that you are paid for @Floofydawg You aren't doing yourself or anyone else any favours by trying to fit in 5 days in 4 days. If you get four full days' work done that will be more than most FT people anyway.

It’s not a high salary but many primary heads get around this salary. They work hard. Therefore I think a few extra hours isn’t unreasonable. Or just go fu time for the same workload!

My DH was self employed for decades and mostly worked normal hours but obviously put in the extra when needed. He earned a lot more than anything quoted here. It’s a supply and demand thing and working smart. If the op has in demand skills, go self employed. DH had a lot of staff though and they all made money for the partnership. If you can make money in reasonable hours, you should. Just remember the pension payments though.