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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Work situation - is this reasonable?

375 replies

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 06:59

I'm in a mid senior role in financial services. Work part time (4 days, not condensed) but still get a full time workload done. Am expected to travel around once a month for work which ends up in me doing more than my paid hours that week. I don't get that time back and I still have to get my work done.

Next Monday I've been asked to travel for a department wide 'away day' which will basically just be a talking shop. This would mean me leaving home at 6.30am and not getting back til around 8pm. I've said I'm not going and my manager is trying to pressure me. AIBU to stick to my guns?

OP posts:
Brefugee · 04/12/2023 08:20

but i do get it. Once i turned 50 the long days really started to get to me. In Finance and Sales roles month end can lead to insane hours, and that started to feel like jet-lag (in the end i changed jobs. Less money less responsibility, but no long insane days any more)

fairygalaxy · 04/12/2023 08:20

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:10

Thanks for the replies. To answer some of the questions:

I get paid 80%
My PT salary is £52.5k so hardly Megabucks. I've been at the bottom of my salary band for as long as I can remember.
This is about the 6th away day this year and I also travel often to meet and entertain clients
I don't really give a shit if it's career limiting to be honest, they can't recruit into the team (they are trying) and they need me more than I need them right now.

Then work 80%

MrsElsa · 04/12/2023 08:22

Girlsjustwannahavefundamentalrights · 04/12/2023 07:55

We are under resourced as a team and the work just has to get done

The reason you remain under resourced is that currently, the team are working those hours for free. Why would the company want to pay someone to do the work when currently it's getting done, and the extra profit is going in their pocket.

Work to rule. Let things slide outside your actual workload and just do the hours you're paid to do. I think they call it "quiet quitting". Except that is actually just working to your contract. It's the company that's quiet quit on you.

This.

No matter how senior you are. The advice is the same! You do the bare minimum and don't forget "bare minimum" is in your context. Top of that list should be "shit that makes me look good to my boss and her boss/ceo/board".

Also I am surprised you are doing extra hours for crunch times and not taking it back by flexing your hours. That is just silly, sorry. It's an informal thing and all senior people do it. They don't ask permission, they just come in at 11am sometimes and knob off at 2pm other times.

Or, if you fancy being a real knobby boss, you can come in pointedly early 8.30am and knob off at 11 for "lunch", come back at 3pm and leave pointedly late at 6pm (hate those, they're the ones walking round putting the fear into people!).

Finally, it's a dangerous slippery slope to compare yourself to someone elese. She's not going to pay your mgage if you get sacked... so be smart about it and look out for yourself.

rookiemere · 04/12/2023 08:22

Depending on how you're travelling you could try to leave a bit earlier.

MargotBamborough · 04/12/2023 08:23

YANBU to be burnt out and resentful about doing a full time job for a part time wage.

Because this away day is on what is a normal working day for you, I suspect the reality is that you know you should attend but you have reached the limits of your tolerance and this feels like the straw that might break the camel's back.

I would like to work four days per week but I am hesitant to do so because I suspect that like you and so many other women it would make no actual difference to my workload and I would just end up doing a full time job for a part time salary.

Can you have an open and honest conversation with your manager and just explain that you feel overworked and underpaid, that there is no recognition of the fact that you only get paid for four days a week as you are still expected to do a full time workload, and ask them to work with you and come up with a plan to help restore your work life balance to what it should be?

WillowTit · 04/12/2023 08:25

TheDandyLion · 04/12/2023 07:37

Start calculating TOIL.

agree with this

NewFriendlyLadybird · 04/12/2023 08:25

Floopani · 04/12/2023 07:38

Its not the away day that's the issue, it's your FT workload on a PT salary.

Pick your battles. The work 'just having to be done' isn't a good strategy for your employer or for you. You need to come up with a game plan for boundaries around this.

^^^^ This.

Original poster
Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:26

Because this away day is on what is a normal working day for you, I suspect the reality is that you know you should attend but you have reached the limits of your tolerance and this feels like the straw that might break the camel's back.

Yep you're 100% correct there. And I've had the work life balance convo many times and it falls on deaf ears. My boss has, on several occasions, forgotten that I even work PT.

OP posts:
CharlotteBog · 04/12/2023 08:28

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 07:10

I just cba with this shit any more. I'm in my 50s and days like that completely exhaust me for the entire week. Think I need a different job.

A long working day shouldn't wipe you out for the rest of the week, really. Do you have additional things going on?

I am also in my 50s and with my children needing me less* I am enjoying being able to do things I have previously not been able to due to childcare.
But I very much enjoy my job which I imagine is the key difference.

*I actually can't travel for work atm as I am a lone parent with a 14yo (and an adult son), but my world has opened up in many other ways.

The main problem I see is you doing 100% on 80% of the pay. You say that you still 'get a full workload'. How did that situation happen?

Original poster
Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:29

@CharlotteBog menopausal insomnia - it's a bitch. And traveling makes it worse.

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 04/12/2023 08:30

MrsElsa · 04/12/2023 08:22

This.

No matter how senior you are. The advice is the same! You do the bare minimum and don't forget "bare minimum" is in your context. Top of that list should be "shit that makes me look good to my boss and her boss/ceo/board".

Also I am surprised you are doing extra hours for crunch times and not taking it back by flexing your hours. That is just silly, sorry. It's an informal thing and all senior people do it. They don't ask permission, they just come in at 11am sometimes and knob off at 2pm other times.

Or, if you fancy being a real knobby boss, you can come in pointedly early 8.30am and knob off at 11 for "lunch", come back at 3pm and leave pointedly late at 6pm (hate those, they're the ones walking round putting the fear into people!).

Finally, it's a dangerous slippery slope to compare yourself to someone elese. She's not going to pay your mgage if you get sacked... so be smart about it and look out for yourself.

Edited
Show quote history

This, as well.

I am at mid senior level and I pull out all the stops to get my work done when I need to.

This week I have been signed up for a two day remote training session which, it turns out, is on east coast time, so it starts at 3pm my time and finishes at about 11pm. During the "lunch break" I will need to feed my kids and put them to bed. I've also got meetings immediately before the training starts, on both days.

I will be taking that time back and there will be no discussion about it and no needing to justify it. This week, outside of the actual training hours and my other meetings, I will be doing the absolute bare minimum that needs to get done and taking the opportunity to do other things that I don't normally have time to do during the week, such as going to the post office, going for a swim, sorting out the house and getting my Christmas shopping done.

My boss knows I'm reliable and I get my work done. He knows I often work beyond my contracted hours. He doesn't care if I take a long lunch break to celebrate my wedding anniversary, or clock off a couple of hours early to drive to my parents' house, or if I have a doctor's appointment or a childcare emergency.

Surely one of the perks of getting to be reasonably senior is that you don't have to ask permission for everything, you just do it.

MargotBamborough · 04/12/2023 08:32

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:26

Because this away day is on what is a normal working day for you, I suspect the reality is that you know you should attend but you have reached the limits of your tolerance and this feels like the straw that might break the camel's back.

Yep you're 100% correct there. And I've had the work life balance convo many times and it falls on deaf ears. My boss has, on several occasions, forgotten that I even work PT.

You need to keep reminding them.

It's not on for your boss to "forget" that you work part-time.

I would start keeping a note of what hours you are actually doing and when.

And if you are asked to do anything on your day off, just repeat, "I can't, that's my non working day."

Do you put an out of office response on your emails and voicemail on your non working day? If not, you should start doing that.

"I do not work on Wednesdays. If your query is urgent, please contact my manager. If it is not urgent, please contact me again tomorrow."

ElaineMBenes · 04/12/2023 08:36

As others have said, in a senior role this is expected. Especially if it's a working day.
I get it, it's hard but sometimes you just have to suck it up.

I have a hell of a week this week which includes late meetings/dinners and early breakfast meetings but it's my job 🤷🏼‍♀️

BarbaraofSeville · 04/12/2023 08:38

OP you need to do more than remind them about your PT salary. You need your workload (client numbers/targets, whatever your KPIs are) reducing to 80% of full time. So if everyone else manages 20 accounts, you have 16.

If not, you need to go back to a full time contract and salary and negotiate compressed hours so you do full time hours in 4 days and this is reflected in your contract. Because it sounds like you're doing this anyway, so you might as well get paid properly for it.

If you did this could you use the extra salary to buy in help (cleaner, extra childcare, something like delivered food from Cook) to reduce your workload at home?

Logoplanter · 04/12/2023 08:39

I'm with you OP. I think it is unreasonable but I say that with the caveat that I haven't seen your employment contract, so don't know your terms and conditions.

The more people do this stuff, the more it becomes expected of everyone.

The only thing of value, I as an employee have to sell to my employer is essentially my time (my knowledge and skills aren't provided unless I give my time.) Therefore I'm not prepared to give my time away for free.

Don't fall for the "oh you're in a senior role." That's what employers use to justify asking you to provide more work than they are paying you to do..

I'm clearly in the minority though.

Toastcrumbsinsofa · 04/12/2023 08:39

Call in sick on the day to get out of the awayday.

Day to day if some of your work doesn’t get completed will anyone die? Will the UK economy collapse? If not, let things slide a bit and only work your normal hours by prioritising the most important tasks. Stop being available outside your normal working hours. They’ll soon recruit more people if the work doesn’t get completed!

ThreeImaginaryBoys · 04/12/2023 08:44

Are junior members of your team expected to do the long day? People earning considerably less than you are? Senior management need to lead by example.

CertieCumboyle · 04/12/2023 08:44

I'm in my 50s and days like that completely exhaust me for the entire week

Have you looked into why you might be so exhausted by this?

I'm in my 50s and do far more than this, and don't feel in the slightest bit tired. I don't think that being in your 50s is a reason not to do stuff. What you're describing sounds mind-numbingly tedious at any age - I couldn't bear "away days" with boring colleagues even when I was in my 20s so binned the job which involved them...

Doggymummar · 04/12/2023 08:49

If it's a working day you have to go, so does your colleague. But they should give you toil for the travel time, at least my company do. I had to travel 300 miles for a lunchtime meeting which meant leaving home at 5.30 instead of 8.30 and we didn't finish till 8pm. I got a day off to compensate.

MargotBamborough · 04/12/2023 08:53

BarbaraofSeville · 04/12/2023 08:38

OP you need to do more than remind them about your PT salary. You need your workload (client numbers/targets, whatever your KPIs are) reducing to 80% of full time. So if everyone else manages 20 accounts, you have 16.

If not, you need to go back to a full time contract and salary and negotiate compressed hours so you do full time hours in 4 days and this is reflected in your contract. Because it sounds like you're doing this anyway, so you might as well get paid properly for it.

If you did this could you use the extra salary to buy in help (cleaner, extra childcare, something like delivered food from Cook) to reduce your workload at home?

Yes, this is the correct approach.

Schedule a meeting with your line manager and say, "I work an 80% contract. This means I am getting paid 80% of a full time salary. I need to be doing 80% of the work and 80% of the hours that I would be doing if I were being paid a full time salary, and I don't believe that is the case currently. I understand that it is difficult in a role like this to be precise about the number of hours worked, but I am starting to feel burnt out and resentful. We need to either refine my targets/scope of work/accounts/responsibilities to reflect my part-time contract, which means you need to expect a day less per week from me than you would of a full-time employee at the same level, or I need to go back to a full-time salary so at least I can be adequately paid for the full-time job I am currently doing."

Newgirls · 04/12/2023 08:54

I’d do it then take the next day off sick (which in a way is sensible as when exhausted you will be more likely to get a virus).

away days are about showing your face and talking to people so it’s important you show up

TizerorFizz · 04/12/2023 08:55

Your fte is what a primary head teacher earns. It’s not a low salary and many people do extra hours on this level of money.

@pinkdelight The Inland Revenue will not consider you self employed if you work for one employer. It’s a loophole that’s been closed. You can set up a company and work for several people and pay corporation tax .

Clytherow · 04/12/2023 08:56

IMO people in senior roles who consistently work at all hours and over and above are setting the tone for junior members of staff who then feel they have to do the same. If you are PT then you should be working PT.

Clytherow · 04/12/2023 08:57

TizerorFizz · 04/12/2023 08:55

Your fte is what a primary head teacher earns. It’s not a low salary and many people do extra hours on this level of money.

@pinkdelight The Inland Revenue will not consider you self employed if you work for one employer. It’s a loophole that’s been closed. You can set up a company and work for several people and pay corporation tax .

You don't need to set up a company, you can work as a sole trader for several different organisations. I have done for years.

Clytherow · 04/12/2023 08:58

Logoplanter · 04/12/2023 08:39

I'm with you OP. I think it is unreasonable but I say that with the caveat that I haven't seen your employment contract, so don't know your terms and conditions.

The more people do this stuff, the more it becomes expected of everyone.

The only thing of value, I as an employee have to sell to my employer is essentially my time (my knowledge and skills aren't provided unless I give my time.) Therefore I'm not prepared to give my time away for free.

Don't fall for the "oh you're in a senior role." That's what employers use to justify asking you to provide more work than they are paying you to do..

I'm clearly in the minority though.

I agree with you and I work in HR.