Page 2 | Work situation - is this reasonable?

Floofydawg · 2023-12-04T06:59:57+00:00

I'm in a mid senior role in financial services. Work part time (4 days, not condensed) but still get a full time workload done. Am expected to travel around once a month for work which ends up in me doing more than my paid hours that week. I don't get that time back and I still have to get my work done. Next Monday I've been asked to travel for a department wide 'away day' which will basically just be a talking shop. This would mean me leaving home at 6.30am and not getting back til around 8pm. I've said I'm not going and my manager is trying to pressure me. AIBU to stick to my guns?

Aprilx · 04/12/2023 07:41

I think your actions will be career limiting. I have worked at a senior level in financial services for thirty years and contracts have always stated that at times extra hours would be required and that has been the case in practice too. Salaries usually reflect this. To be honest, being out of the house from 6:30am to 8pm wouldn’t be far off a normal day, never mind for an away day.

If you want to clock on and clock off you have probably taken the wrong career path and need to rethink but it will likely involve a drop in salary.

TizerorFizz · 04/12/2023 07:43

@pinkdelight ”cushy consultancy” is an interesting notion. My DH was a self employed consulting engineer for decades. Cushy it’s not. You have to find the work. If you are not self employed, you are not a consultant.

Ginmonkeyagain · 04/12/2023 07:44

When I was younger (and lower paid) I had a job that involved travel to a lot of meetings across the UK and to Brussels I would frequently have to leave the house at 6am (or earlier if getting the Eurostar) and not get back til gone 8pm.

There was no formal TOIL but there was an informal understanding you could come in later or leave earlier the next day.

hastiestofjennies · 04/12/2023 07:47

I'm in a support role. not a manager at all. I'm expected to travel to meetings where I have to leave at 7am, stay over and get home the next day at 8pm. this is all on my non working day as I'm part time too

I would expect managers to do it but it feels a bit much for me - I'm "just" project admin

rwalker · 04/12/2023 07:47

Going over your hours has been expected and part and parcel of every senior role I’ve done
tbh one of the reasons I stepped away from it as got to the point like OP cba with it
but if your not happy to commit to things like this which are all part of a senior role you need to step down

rookiemere · 04/12/2023 07:47

Also because of cost cutting and covid many of us have got out of the way of this sort of travelling.

I remember in same company in my 30s I would often have to travel to London and back in a day from Edinburgh by plane, and there would be loads of us on the same flight.

Nowadays I insist on arriving the night before as the 4am start is too much of a killer for me.

Brefugee · 04/12/2023 07:48

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 07:15

If you are regularly going over your hours and doing a ft job in pt hours they need to make some changes.

I am yes, and there are no plans to change this anytime soon. We are under resourced as a team and the work just has to get done. It's causing resentment which makes me not want to put myself out.

it's tricky - since the senior nature of your job and the assumption that you're salaried rather than hourly paid usually means you have to put in extra hours. It has been this way for ever.

However. I have stopped doing this and make sure to take my time back - and if i can't get my work done in my hours, then i prioritise. But i have had several, extremely uncomfortable, meetings with my company about salary and why my expectations of an increase can't be met by the company. Which is why we are where we are.

The issue of your colleague ducking out is tricky. On the one hand it is good that the company take this seriously enough to put up with it. On the other as a working mum who had to put in 200% effort compared to the men with wives at home to do the childcare, it makes my slapping hand itch. You have to put that aside, and concentrate on what you are going to say to the company, wrt your working.

Can you go later and leave earlier? (and work while travelling - i used to get in 2 hours on the train sometimes, and always made sure it was visible by emailing like mad while i was doing it as proof)

rookiemere · 04/12/2023 07:51

hastiestofjennies · 04/12/2023 07:47

I'm in a support role. not a manager at all. I'm expected to travel to meetings where I have to leave at 7am, stay over and get home the next day at 8pm. this is all on my non working day as I'm part time too

I would expect managers to do it but it feels a bit much for me - I'm "just" project admin

In that scenario I'd at least change your NWD as you shouldn't be working or traveling if not paid for the day.
I'm relatively senior and do this.

Brefugee · 04/12/2023 07:53

I remember one hideous trip that involved a 4 hour meeting in Tokyo that i went to with one of my Sales Managers - we arrived an hour before the meeting and left 2 hours after. To and from Europe (the contract was worth it to the company but i was in my 40s and the jet lag was a killer)

Now I'd insist on arriving the day before and leaving the day after, and the company would do that but only because I've already "paid my dues" as it were.

Girlsjustwannahavefundamentalrights · 04/12/2023 07:55

We are under resourced as a team and the work just has to get done

The reason you remain under resourced is that currently, the team are working those hours for free. Why would the company want to pay someone to do the work when currently it's getting done, and the extra profit is going in their pocket.

Work to rule. Let things slide outside your actual workload and just do the hours you're paid to do. I think they call it "quiet quitting". Except that is actually just working to your contract. It's the company that's quiet quit on you.

Girlsjustwannahavefundamentalrights · 04/12/2023 07:57

Brefugee · 04/12/2023 07:53

I remember one hideous trip that involved a 4 hour meeting in Tokyo that i went to with one of my Sales Managers - we arrived an hour before the meeting and left 2 hours after. To and from Europe (the contract was worth it to the company but i was in my 40s and the jet lag was a killer)

Now I'd insist on arriving the day before and leaving the day after, and the company would do that but only because I've already "paid my dues" as it were.

This is why i could never be a corporate manager. Who on earth thinks it's reasonable to fly two people across the world for a 4 hour meeting?!

Even before video calls, we had telephones!

Thepeopleversuswork · 04/12/2023 07:59

Sorry as I find things like this a PITA as well but I think you just have to suck it up. Most jobs have an explicit line in the contract that states that you are sometimes required to work outside scheduled hours.

The point of being a senior person as opposed to a junior one is you are sometimes expected to go above and beyond and have a bit of buy in to the company’s overarching goal as opposed to just clocking in and clocking out.

If you want not to ever be expected to do anything like this you are in the wrong job.

Brefugee · 04/12/2023 08:02

oh absolutely, and we did use teleconferencing at that time 15 or so years ago) but a lot of the time it is showing faces etc. Our CEO (Japanese company) was there and so it really was just a handshaking, signature on paper with managers, photo op.

We made a LOT of money, and i got a good bonus (plus they paid flights for my mum to come and babysit as they did actually appreciate me, mostly) so for me, to develop my career, earn the money and show willing that one hideous trip was worth it. In a more junior position, no offer to help with childcare etc etc, i'd have said no (it's a bit complicated in companies like that, actually being "offered" the chance of that trip was seen as an honour)

My point being that OP is now clearly in a completely different position and stage of her career. And it is totally normal to re-evaluate your position and willingness to put up with bullshit.

But i agree with pp - as long as the work is being done, the company has no incentive to employ more people. In that case you all need to prioritise, and only handle the higher priorities. It could be that in your team you have people (like younger me) building their career for whom it's not too much to do extra work to cover some of it. But that should be their decision.

Finlesswonder · 04/12/2023 08:05

What's your salary?

Neriah · 04/12/2023 08:05

If you resent your job, get a new job. Don't use it as an excuse to act unprofessionally. If it's a team away day, then you go because you are part of the team. And that's an opinion from someone who also hates bloody away days!

JoyeuxNarwhal · 04/12/2023 08:10

How different are those hours to your normal commute? I think on balance I'd probably suck it up, but if you're travelling a lot further then you could maybe compromise and say you'll be there 10 until 4, rather than 9 to 5?

Original poster

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:10

Thanks for the replies. To answer some of the questions:

I get paid 80%
My PT salary is £52.5k so hardly Megabucks. I've been at the bottom of my salary band for as long as I can remember.
This is about the 6th away day this year and I also travel often to meet and entertain clients
I don't really give a shit if it's career limiting to be honest, they can't recruit into the team (they are trying) and they need me more than I need them right now.

OP posts:

Original poster

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:12

JoyeuxNarwhal · 04/12/2023 08:10

How different are those hours to your normal commute? I think on balance I'd probably suck it up, but if you're travelling a lot further then you could maybe compromise and say you'll be there 10 until 4, rather than 9 to 5?

10 until 4 means the traveling times I said in my OP. There are also drinks afterwards which I wouldn't be staying for. It's expected that we travel there and back the same day and not book a hotel because of cost cutting.

OP posts:

NextPrimeMinister · 04/12/2023 08:12

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 07:10

I just cba with this shit any more. I'm in my 50s and days like that completely exhaust me for the entire week. Think I need a different job.

I totally understand this aspect. I recently had 2 days offsite and came back totally exhausted. I bit everyones head off on Friday. I should have taken the day off but have used up my holidays.

I used to be able to do this kind of thing all the time, but now find even a normal working week exhausting. I'm 54. 4 days a week sounds tempting.

pinkdelight · 04/12/2023 08:12

@pinkdelight ”cushy consultancy” is an interesting notion. My DH was a self employed consulting engineer for decades. Cushy it’s not. You have to find the work. If you are not self employed, you are not a consultant.

Which is why I qualified consultancy with 'cushy'. Not because all consultancy roles are cushy, obviously many aren't, but some are and those are the ones the OP would need to make £££ without putting in lots of hours.

Viviennemary · 04/12/2023 08:14

Depends on your status and salary I'd say as to whether this is acceptable. But absolutely not acceptable the colleague is refusing. This is wrong.

NextPrimeMinister · 04/12/2023 08:16

Btw I'd still go and swap my nwd. I think you still need to fulfil the aspects of the role but appreciate you need strategies to cope with the long day.

pinkdelight · 04/12/2023 08:17

@TizerorFizz for instance several senior execs I know gave up their jobs and were hired back by the same company on a consulting basis and now do 2-3 days a week doing that and consulting gigs for similar companies/clients. They make more than their previous rate and have more free time. I wasn't saying this is the case for every consultant, many work long hours and I'm self employed myself so know all about getting the gigs etc., but nonetheless cushy consulting roles exist.

Brefugee · 04/12/2023 08:18

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 08:10

Thanks for the replies. To answer some of the questions:

I get paid 80%
My PT salary is £52.5k so hardly Megabucks. I've been at the bottom of my salary band for as long as I can remember.
This is about the 6th away day this year and I also travel often to meet and entertain clients
I don't really give a shit if it's career limiting to be honest, they can't recruit into the team (they are trying) and they need me more than I need them right now.

OK OP so in your shoes i would go to this one, but maybe even 11 until 3 (cut out 2 hours from your day)
And then i would start working my hours. Do the priority work, let everything else slide to insignificance or be escalated to priorty.

If you have the upper hand, use it.

fairygalaxy · 04/12/2023 08:19

Floofydawg · 04/12/2023 07:09

Yes it's my working day.

I should probably add, I have a colleague (same grade) who is saying they can't go due to childcare commitments and it's actually in their local office so less traveling required. It's kind of making me not want to put myself out tbh.

Then you're expected to go and your part time status is irrelevant. There will be something in your contract.