To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

That's a very black and white view though. A lot of people people in disadvantaged countries are incredibly happy, have wonderful family and friends and are surrounded by love. Just because you happen to live in a privileged country, doesn't mean you can't be unloved, starving and abused.

We want to believe that anyone and everyone can overcome anything so we don't have to feel any guilt over our lot yes frequently people look away or minimise or recall an anecdote of overcoming adversity to protect their ego or conscience. We see but don’t see. Give some money to pudsey and move on

@daisychain01

oh they are still hearing “you were just lucky”, the people who believe that success is pure luck and privilege still manage to find something to denigrate these people’s personal achievements against the odds

its like a religion, this thought that EVERYONE who is successful is just lucky 🙄

@Whalewatchers

well we are talking about luck and privilege in achieving financial success no? Not about happiness
its silly to argue that a person born in the UK even in poverty has more opportunities to better their life than a person born in poverty in Ethiopia

everyone born in a developed country has won a genetic lottery already compared to the rest of the world

Op i agree with the majority of your post, but i do think love and money/class are different things being lumped in together.

Poor/working class doesnt automatically mean being neglected, bad parenting, unloved, uncultured, abused, addiction problems, traumatised etc

@CottonC you said to me "you live in one of the best countries in the world" and then what you wrote after that means you think I live in the U.K.

I said that I live in the Republic of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is also a first world country. However it is extremely expensive. And we have an extreme wealth divide here. I see lots of very rich people.

I also see lots of people in Ireland who can't afford their rent or food.

I see lots of homeless tents in Dublin city centre.

I have visited the UK a couple of times , and while you say it's one of the best countries in the works and indeed it is better than many others,
the last time that I was in the UK - people there were telling me there how they couldn't afford their rent and bills and how the cost of living is huge.

So I know that there is a lot of poverty in the UK too

@@LimePi you said that people born in a developed country have won the lottery against people born in countries in Ethiopia. While I agree in a part.

I don't know how developed countries came even be called developed countries , when they don't even give the basic living conditions to people.

Who decides that they are "developed".

I walked through Dublin city centre last week , and the amount of homeless people in tents is shocking. In the rain

Is that living in a developed way.

Completely agree. There’s been lots of research into ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) and how they affect outcomes for people in childhood and into adulthood.
its not to say that if you experience any of these, you can’t be happy and successful, it just means it’s much harder for you. I find it frustrating that some people think we live in a meritocracy and people who are successful always get there by working harder than those who don’t the ‘well I must have just worked harder than you because I’m rich’ attitude.

It's difficult, because I do relate to what you are saying, but have a completely different outcome.
My dad, brother and sister all died when we were living abroad, I came back here, and started school aged six, with my mam working full time to support us, and me walking home from school alone, and caring for myself until she got in from work.
She went on to remarry when I was 12. I ran away from
home at 15, and never went back, though did rebuild a relationship, of a sort, with her.
I had done my o levels, and did quite well, but was out in 'the real world' and needed to make money to pay rent.

To cut a long ( and very colourful) story short, from being dragged up, I ended up as CEO for charity, retired at 55 and, medical and personal issues aside, have had a happy and very full life.

So, I suppose I'm saying that I understand what you're saying, but also claiming that life is what you make it. Doesn't always work, of course not, I've been lucky, but having a poor start on life spurred me on, rather than limited my aspirations.

YANBU

Wealthy people have so many more privileges than poorer people and their lives are considerably easier for it.

People say that rich people can have a neglectful or abusive home too, which is true but chances are they still had a warm home, food to eat and a chance at a good education.

There is a cycle of wealth/poverty.

Chances are if you grew up poor, you will become a poor adult and then your DCs will also be poor and the cycle just continues.

The only thing you can do is try and get a decent job and encourage your DCs to have good careers and start breaking that cycle of poverty.
If may not be be broken in one generation but it will eventually.

I definitely think it’s easier to break the cycle of poverty nowadays than it was in the past.
It used to be that if your parents were doctors then you’d be a doctor but if your parent was a factory worker, you’d have no chance of becoming a doctor but now there are many more opportunities for people and slowly I think it will even put more.

It's inevitable because the ruling class want it so. Yes, there will always be difference but social mobility has got worse. The Uber rich are rich because of the labour of the poor.

Rutger Bregman is interesting on poverty.

https://www.ted.com/talks/rutger_bregman_poverty_isn_t_a_lack_of_character_it_s_a_lack_of_cash?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare

I can tick 9 of this list in my childhood, as can my sister. We lived hand to mouth.

Poverty is a major factor, but not an ACE. With poverty included, you've got so much further to climb up to even get to the playing field, let alone level it. You can't just pop off for therapy to deal with these issues as you can't afford it. You often numb them with the cheaper alternatives of alcohol/drugs...and so continue the cycle.

My sister has bounced from pillar to post and hasn't really known stability for the last 40 years.

I had a wonderful team of staff in primary school who cared, fed me, bought me clothes as needed. I wanted to please them, so tried hard at school. I became successful.

It was harder to keep working hard at secondary, as I wasn't as well known nor encouraged there by staff. But I kept going.

Got a place at Cambridge. Worked all through term time and full time every holiday to supplement my full grant. Don't quite know how I got to graduation.

I now have success in my career and am comfortably settled. The cycle is broken for me.

Damn the Tories for getting rid of free higher education. I'd never have gone to uni had I had to pay...18 yr old me would never have allowed myself to get into so much debt.
Damn the Tories for getting rid of Surestart centres.
Damn the Tories for not getting enough tax from the rich and preventing problems at a young age.
Damn the Tories for not funding schools enough to make a difference to those children who need extra finance for that extra push to succeed.

Education was my key out of that life. I still doubt myself regularly and lack self belief that I am good enough, but it's lessened with time.

You've got some great advice here @Mooshamoo I wish you well as you continue your journey to make things better for yourself. The hard work will be worth it.

Are there no colleges that do evening classes?
Where I live, you could study English or maths in the evenings, free. After than you could move onto A-levels and then higher education.

Life isn't fair. But it's what you make it.

My father lost his dad when he was 8.
They were bombed out of their house twice in the second world war and lost everything.
His mother raised 3 kids on 3 part time jobs. No benefits in the 1930s.

My father passed for Grammar school but his mum couldn't afford the uniform.
He left school with nothing, went to work in the shipyards.

At 22 he started doing evening classes, after 12 hours a day doing a physical job building ships.

After 7 years he had the equivalent of a degree after going to college 2 nights a week.

He then got a professional job and was able to buy a house.

They were always poor but valued education.

You can turn things round but it takes effort and resilience.

I completely agree.

It’s like when celebs like Kim Kardashian say everyone has the same 24 hours or that people just need to work harder, even though their parents were very wealthy to start with.

@Mooshamoo

do a bit of reading, love, to find out what it is to be a woman in Afghanistan or Ethiopia
you have a home, free school education, free and good healthcare, some form of state pension? A job? Maybe free or discounted higher education?
now imagine a life where there is NONE of that and it is the norm for everyone

I agree with you. Statistically, those from financially deprived backgrounds are more likely to have experienced abuse, struggled with addiction, and suffer from low confidence and self esteem. It’s not impossible to overcome adversity and yes, a small number manage to break free but that’s often not possible for those with much tighter financial restrictions, caring responsibilities, low self esteem, who may also be battling depression and addiction. How you are treated and supported during childhood has a huge impact on your life as an adult.

It's not a race to the bottom, love.

Of course it’s unfair. However so is poor physical health, poor mental health, death of a parent etc etc. life is unfair! The only thing you can do is to do your best with what you’ve got.

Here it is,the plucky working class overcoming adversity anecdotes. One uplifting story is not representative of all
The inevitable plucky pull yourself together tone You can turn things round but it takes effort and resilience this isn’t a truism at all.

I'm sorry you had such an unlucky start in life. 39 is not too old to change your path. You're not half-way through likely lifespan. This lady is inspirational. The library is your friend.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/07/sabrina-cohen-hatton-firefighter-fire-safety-heat-of-the-moment

The answer is not the women should not have children , the solution is to raise the child ( and their mother) out of poverty.

Do you also tell people that are dying that they're lucky they're not dead yet?
Asking for a friend..

Gosh you are very naive that's simply not true.

I’m sorry for the poverty and abuse you experienced as a child.

My husband was brought up in poverty and I was brought up poor compared to my friends.

We both went into healthcare and it shaped us and we appreciate what we have achieved and we never compare ourselves to our peers.

Some of the Consultant's I’ve worked with from third world countries earn 300k plus now and they had it much worse than me when they were younger. Some of the experiences they describe as children are dire. Their work ethic, charitable organisations in their country and their determination to achieve academically got them where they are today.

I work with many refugees now who have been homeless living in tents for years and yet they inspire me everyday because of their optimism. They live in areas that are considered the worst neighborhoods in our town but they are grateful just to have a roof over their heads. When I visit their homes they are so welcoming and their optimism for their futures is humbling.

I do think the poor rich decide is unfair but you can’t let it consume your life. We all end up dead rich or poor and life is short.

I hope you can find some happiness.

@Mooshamoo I haven't read all the replies on this thread but I shall do.

I totally relate to your OP and the points you raise and completely identify.

Some posters have rightly pointed out that financial wealth doesn't mean a person wasn't severely harmed or abused or neglected in childhood, and I agree to this point.

However, I would say that a wealthy person has the means to address this via private treatment centres, private therapy, rehabs, and also has a lot of agency over their life by means of the wealth to travel, live well, be housed well, eat well, and pay for all types of assistance which somewhat mediates the horror. We can see that this doesn't always work as the children of the rich and famous take their own lives or drop down from overdose, sadly.