To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

Hi, I just signed up as I wanted to suggest studying with the Open University. Tuition fees are about £1000 per year part- time and can be paid monthly.

I’m in a similar position to you. I don’t know how to sum it up other than to say I’ve had a hard life and it can seem out of reach to make it better sometimes. I haven’t worked since before Covid due to health issues, and I can’t get the right treatment on the NHS. It would cost £20 000 to change my life.

I agree with you, it isn’t fair at all

YANBU. I think of how much help we have given our kids, paying for driving lessons which then enabled them to get part time jobs, helping them out with first car insurance etc which would largely be beyond most young people. We give our kids far more help than my parents gave me. I also don't know how kids without parental support manage to go to Uni when loans barely cover accomodation costs and job are hard to come by when you only live in the Uni town half the year. There are a lot of upfront costs that parents help with. My dd who is at Uni says some of her fellow students have parents that just cannot help out and these students are struggling to buy food or find deposits for next years accomodation.

I’m not convinced difficulties are the result of being poor, as there are many poor people who have more positive experiences. I think it’s sadly trauma that has the lasting impact. There is a lot of research that indicates that having 1 or more of these adverse childhood experiences can have significant consequences.

• Child physical abuse
• Child sexual abuse
• Child emotional abuse
• Emotional neglect
• Physical neglect
• Mentally ill, depressed, or suicidal person in the home
• Drug addicted or alcoholic family member
• Witnessing domestic violence against the mother
• Loss of a parent to death or abandonment by parental divorce
• Incarceration of any family member for a crime

Life is unfair yes - but it's also your life and as adults we make choices about it. I do think sitting shouting 'it's not fair' doesn't really help.

I had a similar home life - poor, as in don't open the door to anyone as it might be the bailiffs poor, mum worked - home alone a lot. Single parent in the 70's - not exactly welcomed by other families, did poorly at school, but post 16 I worked hard - managed a BTEC and a few more O levels - worked for a bit - returned to the UK at 22 and went to my local college to do a degree (awarded by a RG Uni) - worked 3 jobs while studying (completely self supporting) , went without food, heat etc many times (but used to that as grew up that way) - did a post grad that involved a 4 hour round trip 3 days a week - then moved 200 miles away for my first proper job at 26!

I will never earn a huge amount - certainly not the magic MN 3 figures - but have my own home and have managed to raise 3 wonderful kids as a single parent - 2 are now at Uni.

I got help to deal with the emotional and sexual abuse I had endured as a child, I got out of the one abusive relationship I was in (took 3 years) - so at some point, while life isn't 'fair' because no one handed me anything on a plate, I also took personal responsibility for my own life as an adult - and stopped blaming the world.

Only you can change things for yourself.

I hard a hard and poor upbringing. My ambition in life was to always work and to buy a property. I managed both. I was lucky to get a public sector job with steady hours and my health has been good enough for me to stick at it. I'm only now starting to realise what a massive disadvantage a poor upbringing is, and how much poverty takes from you. How living week to week creates a short term and unsecure feeling. Is hard to keep positive when you are ground down by stress and anxiety and feelings of inadequacy over your low status.

I am doing everything I can to make sure that my daughter has a better start in life financially, but I know that things like ill health can be catastrophic if you don't have a financial safety net, and that's what keeps me awake at night. I work 3 jobs at the moment and am exhausted.

Aww op, I feel your pain.

Right now you need to heal yourself from your trauma and focus about what is in your control and what you can change. I know it sucks how unfair it all is but feeling resentment won't help you one bit. The past cannot be changed but you can change the future

In particular, improving continuing education opportunities. If you miss the boat in childhood/teens. there is now almost no way back.

But there is no way to iron out the unfairness, the well-connected will always be able to look after their children. The mediocre in well off families are always found reasonably paying jobs, it's the mediocre in poorer families who spend their lives on minimum wage. So even more important than trying to increase equality of opportunity is to decrease the wealth inequality that has increased so much during my lifetime, so it's not quite so much "winner takes all". But how do we do that when the rich "own" the governemt and all the media outlets which frame information about the world according their viewpoint?

@Singsonggsu sorry I should have said that I'm not in the UK. I'm in the republican of Ireland. So those student grants don't apply to me.
I'm 39. I'm in between jobs so I'm currently unemployed.
I receive job seekers allowance. I went into the social welfare office in Ireland to ask about going back to college.

You are not allowed in Ireland to keep job seekers allowance and go to college. You have to move into back to education allowance..only some people are entitled to back to education allowance. They have a range of criteria

I went into the office and asked would I be able to get back to education allowance to go back to college. They told me no I wasn't allowed to get it

I was raised by a single mum in the late 60’s/early 70’s, we lived on one of the largest council estates in the SE. My mum was looked down on, especially by the Catholic church, times were very tough for us. She did meet someone in 1974 who she then married and he became our adoptive father, we took his surname. 6 years later during a time of great hardship in this country (horrendous mortgage rates), this lovely, kind, darling man died aged 51.
Instead of going to college (it was not financially viable for me not to work), I left School at 15 (1980) and worked for a pittance in a factory. Over the course of the last 43 years, I have travelled the world, gained further qualifications (night classes and Open University) and now earn a good wage and own my own home.
Anything is possible if you really want it to happen, you might have to look much harder and fight for it much harder but it can happen.

Have you looked at Springboard? They offer free courses in ROI I believe.

There are lots of courses for free. There are jobs that you can get where your employer pays for the course too. For example, joining a finance team with no knowledge, but they will pay for you to go to college and do AAT/CIMA etc. It's game changing in opening doors for you once you have that qualification and a few years finance experience. Don't write yourself off, you definitely have the power to change things even if it means starting at the bottom somewhere to get yourself there. I did, and now I manage the team that I started in at entry level 5 years ago.

Perfectly put, and I completely agree.

You come from a similar background to me. I worked in a succession of low paid jobs, I am a single parent. I was determined that they would get an education and spent many years focusing on them. I have just completed a degree and MA - it was financially tough but manageable and there are bursaries available. I left school without qualifications and did a foundation year. I am now about to start a reasonably well paid job and there is room for progression. I am 52 - you can turn this around.
Classism and snobbery exist - but there are nice people out there as well. I think the key is developing friendships through interests.

lots of people study while working part time (bars and so on) - would that be an option?

Life isn't fair. Life can be utterly shitty for some. What can you do? Vote for the right people, but you need to put a lot of working in to pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. It is exhausting.

I agree with you OP that the divide between rich and poor is unfair and is widening at the moment .

I'm also sorry that you have experienced difficulties in your own upbringing .

However - I am not sure that it is totally true that people from well off families always have supporting and caring families with no stress. It may be more likely so - but that is a big generalisation - isn't there a whole MN thread about people from well off troubled families ?

Life is unfair. That's a fact. I had a horrendous upbringing. But I did turn it around over the years and my DC have had a completely different life. PP's are right when they say only you can change it.

For me personally that meant moving far away for 2 reasons. One being it removed me from where so much trauma had occurred and secondly there were no opportunities in that area (very deprived rural area). I did go back a few years ago to visit someone and it was like a heavy grey cloud settled over me from the time I arrived to when I left. People will say you shouldn't run from your problems but actually a fresh start can inspire a new you.

I will never be rich and privileged but I'm comfortable. My DC have both done well. We've broken the cycle.

This is why I hate the " we've all got the same 24 hours " saying.
I was brought up in horrendous poverty and was very dirty and often hungry.
My 24 hours in a day, literally was used to survive.
I left home as soon as. Could and I never went back.
I got an education ( something that wasn't encouraged) and I have slogged away to build an ok life.
I broke the cycle for my children and although life always throws other situations and problems, we are all doing ok.
People who've never been in the situation don't understand or find it to uncomfortable to listen about it.
But I will talk about it, if it is relevant to the conversation. I will educate people on the real struggles of being brought up in a uncaring, unemotional, uneducated poverty stricken childhood.
Sending hugs op

Yes I agree to some extent that luck of birth has an affect on your life you can change things.

I had a terrible childhood and was put into care when I was 5 and adopted when I was 7. My adopted family were also abusive although in a different way. I have been NC with my adoptive mother most of my adult life and I dropped out of uni due to issues with the above.

however I now early 40s married to a man that treats me well, 3 children who I ry to ensure have a childhood nothing like mine and have a. ‘Good’ job which I didn’t get into until I was nearly 40.

i still have emotional issues resulting from my childhood and no life is perfect but it is possible to create the life you want, just take little steps towards it. Of course I’d still like a mansion and millions in the bank and be a CEO but what I do have is good.

I am sorry that you have had a difficult start in life and yes, it is unfair.
But here you are, with a clear eyed view of what is and is not good for you, and what you might want for your future.
It takes some people with similar backgrounds a lifetime to get to that point, as their baggage gets in the way.

if you can't afford to go further in formal education, learn something for free. There are various free or low cost courses around in the community, the WEA or local colleges, possibly with concessions for lower paid people.
You might be able to pick up some free online lectures from the OU. You could put yourself through a free course of study, by ordering a booklist from the local library.
You might gain some self esteem from a course in something creative.

You might meet some like minded people by doing this sort of activity, but you have certainly seen who to avoid: shallow people who can’t see further than a job title or income, those who are mired in their despair, etc.

(Having just seen that you're not in the UK may make some of this post inapplicable, but things like libraries and online stuff may still be available.)

@maddiemookins16mum I asked the social welfare office could I do a springboard course and they wouldn't let me do one either!. I also thought you could do any springboard course for free if you are on JSA. Turns out thats not true. They told me you are only allowed to do a very few springboard courses (ones I wasnt eligible for) and keep your job seekers.

For the other springboard courses you have to move off job seekers and onto back to education allowance - but not everyone is allowed to get btea. I think you have to be unemployed for a certain length of time - over a year to get it, and they told me I wasn't eligible for back to education allowance eitner

Luck of birth is very really and gives people a massive opportunity. But you can break out of these cycles. My own father is one of these people, he grew up incredibly poor as an only child with an abusive mother in a council house.

He worked hard, became a vet despite the odds stacked against him, became partner at the vets and has had a very successful career. My parents now live very comfortably, working part time and looking to fully retire before their state pension age. It is possible.

Im obviously very grateful my dad did this because it definitely made my childhood more comfortable from a financial perspective etc. but there are ways to move out of these cycles.

Im 39. Do you think 39 is too late to turn your life around.?

Thing is, a gov can only do so much. Even if they could manage to sort out a universal basic income and unlimited free access to further education, they can't do anything about some of the other issues you mention like lack of emotional support, or a parent not bothering to support their child and give them space, time and quiet to study. As pp have said, at some point you have to make a choice about how you want the next thirty years to look and go forward. If you yourself don't have dependents, why can't you retrain, use the many many free online resources to gain bookkeeping quals for instance. I have told my kids from a very early age that no, life is not fair, noone owes them anything and if they want a better life than working in Mac D they'll have to put in the effort now.

Some people do have an unfair start and its hard to break the chain so to speak but I also know some incredibly kind people who decided that wasn't the life they wanted and they would forge their own path through either getting qualifications, finding a job they love, creating a family of friends around themselves and creating a totally different life

@Mooshamoo 39 is not old. You have a lot of living left to do.

Everyone is free to study hard to get ahead when they're 14, 15, 16, etc.
My siblings and I came from a similar background to OP but decided to do something about it.