To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

With respect, I'm guessing you are financially secure yourself, and I think you sound quite patronising. I'm sure the OP realises that these options might be available, but she's having to do so much juggling - and, as a single, widowed mum, who is struggling with bills atm, I have every sympathy for her.

This is happening to me too. I’ve been saving money to get private treatment but it’s not enough yet and taking a very long time.

@Mooshamoo i am on illness benefit now, but when i was on jobseekers, they were practically throwing me into education. There are a good few 'starter' courses out there which could be a good way of dipping your toe in the water of an area of interest for free and something to potentially build on. And if you find you don't fancy it, it's only a year so you haven't 'wasted' lots of time.

What if you're not clever enough to benefit from an education. Say average or below average IQ? And what if you have mental or physical health problems Should your options just be a life of low wage grinding poverty? I'm thinking of people who work in retail or as care providers. Should their lives be hard because they are able to go to Uni or learn a skilled trade? What about AI that is going to rob the middle class of skilled jobs? I hope you're prepared for that.

@BringItOnxxx well yes, probably. If someone is genuine unable to achieve more complex skills or knowledge than that required for MW jobs then no you are not going to have the same financial benefit as someone who is. I do believe MW should be higher so that full time hours in a decent honest job is enough to live on decently without resorting to foodbanks and top up UC but unless you are going to come up with a system which prevents clever capable people doing well for themselves, there will ALWAYS be inequality. We have a duty to look after people who cannot provide for themselves and that shouldn't be absolutely bare minimum but I do think adults need to do all they can to strive to be self sufficient and yes, that includes retraining and moving around if necessary as the job market changes with AI, or whatever new circumstances come along.

One of my children in early teens is showing every signs of leaving school with few qualifications and no practical skills. I expect them to get some sort of job and eventually be independent but I don't expect him to be somehow handed enough income so that he can have holidays every year and new cars and lots of leisure activities. If he wants nicer things and to match the standard of living he has enjoyed growing up, he will have to find a way to get into a profession that allows that - nothing flash, mid 30k salary here but more than he'll get in the kinds of work he is currently headed to. Life isn't fair and its naive and childish to expect it to be.

Life isn't unfair but if you have drive, you'll find a way. That drive makes you work hard.
For most people, it's through education. Education gives you choices and usually, a better salary.
It's not about having money to get a good education. I barely know anyone who went to private school but most people I know have professional careers. They all went through the State School system and many of them went to ex-polys.
One of the wealthiest people I know is a dentist who didn't even get good A levels but went through the foundation course route.
Most people won't be really rich no matter how hard you work because that's how the system is set up, but most can have a comfortable standard of living.

Some of your comments here are overly simplistic though, bordering on naive imho. It's true enough that drive tends to make people work hard given the right circumstances, but to suggest everyone can 'find a way' if they want it enough is pure Walt Disney. Do you not see what it implies about people who are out there working their fingers to the bone and still barely making ends meet? It's like you're suggesting they must be lacking in drive, which is insulting.

Also, education is not a magic wand for everybody. Basic intelligence and ability levels play a huge part too and hold a lot of people back regardless how much 'drive' they may have. And further/higher education costs money that many don't have, especially now. Health conditions and disabilities also prevent many from fulfilling their 'drive' to the extent they would like to.

I'm not saying your remarks aren't true for anybody. They're probably true for many. But for many others it simply isn't that straightforward. There's no one-size-fits-all solution.

I think so many people on this thread are naive in thinking that people who grew up with poor role models, poor parenting and most likely witnessed abuse or were abused will have the resilience to overcome the obstacles in their way.

Many who have any of the childhood ACES do not have the resilience, because the impact of their childhood has had huge implications on their physical and/or mental health, thus making it feel impossible to get anywhere but stuck, where you are, and have always been.

I think a massive indicator of poverty is a woman having kids too young. It’s hard to change your life path after that

If there is one thing worse than poverty it’s not having had a steady, loving mum (or other loving parent figure) throughout your childhood. Most of us, rich or poor, fear that our DC will lose us and suffer for it. I’m sorry OP.

If you can manage to stay strong enough, hopefully you can break the cycle with your own DC, should you choose to have one.

Life is inherently unfair OP.

Some people are born to awful parents.
Some born physically or mentally impaired.
Some are just not very clever.
Some are bone idle.
Some are prone to making terrible life choices.
Some are born into poverty and never escape. Some do.

And Some people, no matter what help is given, whatever breaks they get, manage to crash and burn.

I'd disagree with this to an extent, many of us have huge amounts of resilience. Much more than an average child. But it catches up with us in the end. How could it not?

I'm in the republic if ireland and got BTE, you just have to be recieving social welfare for a period of time which you would be if you apply for a place for next autumn. I think you are finding every excuse under the sun.

I get what you're saying but it's pretty nasty. I worked for a long time, until i couldn't. It doesn't make me less of a person. I didn't choose not to work, i just couldn't anymore. If i could trade the mental illness for the ability to work again, i'd do it in a heartbeat tbh.

@TurquoiseHexagonSun of course there will be exceptions, there always are.
If you saw my earlier comment, I mentioned that I grew up within an immigrant community. There was no generational wealth, no understanding of the school system from parents, poverty was rife and multiple families lived in small houses, There were different abilities amongst the kids but the work ethic was strong. All these kids I grew up with are pretty successful in a variety of ways, despite some racism.
I know someone who had to change their first name on their cv as their foreign name wasn't getting them any interviews.
Once they got over that barrier, they started getting offers.

I think trauma and abuse hold people back. How can you focus on education if you're trying to just survive every day?
An accident, a change in circumstances, many exceptions but for the majority, I stand by my point.

As is your prerogative, and I agree with some of your points (especially re racism, trauma and abuse, it is truly horrendous what some people have to rise above). But again you mention the work ethic, which again gives me the impression that on some level you're conflating being less fortunate with not being sufficiently driven to succeed. I'm not sure if that's what you intended to convey?

"...,,that on some level you're conflating being less fortunate with not being sufficiently driven to succeed."

There's a difference between being less fortunate and not having drive. If you're considered to have been fairly fortunate in your life circumstances (stable family whatever the setup, food on the table, roof over your head) and not been successful as you would have liked, then is that a lack of drive?
How many of us can honestly look back and wished we had worked a bit harder and we genuinely could have?
That work ethic can get you far even without the standard high earners education.

But I'm not just putting peoples circumstances down to that because I also believe that salaries should be higher. It makes me angry that we have a society where working people can't afford the basics.

But I'm not just putting peoples circumstances down to that because I also believe that salaries should be higher. It makes me angry that we have a society where working people can't afford the basics.

We're 100% in agreement here! It makes me so mad.

I came from a poor background.My parents divorced when I was 10.I had a child age 16 .Times were hard financially when I was a teenager but I went on to get a degree and a good job .You can get yourself out of the cycle of blaming childhood and poverty if you persevere .

Totally agree .

How much did you inherit then ?

Very interesting thread, it's 7 months later OP how are things going now? Any changes you've managed to make?

alwaysbreaks, you're right education is the key to a better life. The film Educating Rita is a superb example of this.