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Original poster

To be upset with my friend - he is upset with me for not having a smear test

315 replies

pussinboots61 · 03/12/2023 00:17

This is a sensitive subject but here goes. I have never had a smear test. I do have reasons but I can't cope with the thoughts of it. I am now 62, been married twice, I haven't been sexually active for some time now.

I will go for other tests but refuse smears. I have a very close male friend who is more like family to me. I worked with him until he retired two weeks ago but we still keep in touch and meet up. I do rely on him a lot and he is very supportive.

The other night we were messaging each other and he just told me randomly about a doctor he had been listening to on the radio talking about smear tests. It was just a general chat and I just commented that I've never had one. He asked me why I am not concerned about my own body and why I won't go for a test and I just told him its something I have always feared.

Then he just went off on one about it, said I should look after myself but not only that, he said I had upset him very much. The conversation went very sparse after that and when I went to bed and messaged him goodnight he just said I had upset him in a big way.

The next day he continued to be off hand with me and when I asked him why he felt I had upset him he went on about how I don't care what happens to me and was on the verge of unfriending me the night before. I was stunned by this. I can understand him being concerned and maybe trying to persuade me to have a test but to want to fall out with me over it was baffling.

I ended up ringing him and then he told me that his Dad died from throat cancer, he had been a heavy smoker from a young age and at one time his GP had offered to give him tests to check if he was going develop cancer but he refused. He said it is now a sore point for him if anyone refuses to have tests. He said he will try and help me get over my fear of smear tests but wants me to have one because he doesn't want me to be in any danger.

I met my friend today for lunch and things were fine but I am still very hurt and upset by this. He wants me to tell him the reason why I am so scared but I don't want to talk about it. I have told him about other friends of mine who won't have certain tests, one of them won't have any test of any kind, she won't even do a urine sample for the doctor because she fears so much what they might find but he said that is them and I can't go on how other people are.

Is he right in being this way or am I overthinking it? I do suffer from depression and I was getting on a more even keel with some new medication I am on but this is setting me back again. I know he is concerned about me but this is just over the top.

OP posts:
BarleyArch · 04/12/2023 15:50

DropDeadFreida · 04/12/2023 11:06

What really bothers me is the narrative behind all this. Why can’t women be given the information in a matter of fact way and then left to make an informed choice? Why all the scare tactics when it comes to cancer screening for women? Why the hysterics in advertising etc? Why are we always treated like this?

Alongside this, maybe if the invasive nature of the procedure (as with a lot of women’s medical procedures) was acknowledged and some attempt was made to make the process more comfortable for women (I’ve seen men being given general anaesthetic for tattoos and women are expected to go through smears, coil fittings etc with just a grit of the teeth) then maybe more women would also be tested. As it is, this is another way in which the medical establishment continues to let us down. I will not ‘just lie back and do it’ thank you, I have a right to refuse.

According to statistics a third of women do not take up the offer of a smear. Maybe it’s time to look at why that is rather than just going on about how important it is to have a smear? Yes, it is important, but if women are not engaging then we need to look at why.

And I will go back to my original point. I did go for a smear, and my sample was not actually screened for cancerous cells as I am HPV negative. So I followed the ‘rules’ and did what was expected, and the outcome for me was that they still did not bother to actually test my cells for cancer. So am I likely to go for another smear? No.

👏👏👏 So well said. I completely agree with every word you said.

Catsmere · 04/12/2023 19:08

Melroses · 04/12/2023 14:22

There was an interesting article in the BMJ about the infantilisation of women over cervical screening.

https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj.p2772

Good article. (There was a thread recently about that revolting thing with the mannequin legs, did you see it?)

I wonder how much of this attitude to pushing women for these tests comes from that old reliable duo of demanding women allow access to our vaginas on demand, and shaming us for having done so. Those ads quoted in the article were nauseating.

DropDeadFreida · 04/12/2023 19:19

I agree @Catsmere, and your experience with the doctor is awful. I do hope such healthcare professionals look back on some of their practices and feel some shame about their behaviour.

The examples in those ads are sickening. They're manipulative, derogatory, and utterly sexist.

Catsmere · 04/12/2023 19:33

Yes @DropDeadFreida , those ads were all sniggering and imo porn-influenced, especially the one talking about shaved vulvas/cats (I completely loathe the use of the word "pussy" for women's genitals). At base it was all about making sure you're available for some man to fuck, wasn't it?

Original poster
pussinboots61 · 04/12/2023 23:40

Hi just an update. I met my friend today and told him how I feel, that I have been depressed since our discussion and how I upset I am by the fact that he was going to fall out with me just because I won't have a smear test.

He said he wasn't going to unfriend me because of that, he knows its my life and my body and he can't make me do anything I don't want to do but he felt I wasn't listening to him and he was getting all upset about his Dad.

Someone has mentioned here about his recent retirement. Although he wanted to retire and he doesn't regret it, I agree that it is a big life change and I feel that may have something to do with it also. He did say that he feels as if I feel its his fault that he retired and isn't at work with me anymore, he hinted that I am making him feel that way. I have only said things in fun about it and usually he takes things in fun but now he's taking it the wrong way. Maybe this is why he reacted over the smear test.

I told him that he was being way over the top, that I won't be having a test and I don't want to discuss it anymore so I think things have calmed down now.

I can forgive but not forget so I will be wary of having future discussions about things like this with him but I am glad that we haven't fallen out.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 05/12/2023 05:18

So he is still annoyed that you’re “not listening” to him and he’s talking about his dad as a reason.
I’m still sceptical about this bit: his Dad died from throat cancer, he had been a heavy smoker from a young age and at one time his GP had offered to give him tests to check if he was going develop cancer but he refused. Has he said exactly what these tests were? I’ve never heard of such a thing as smokers being tested for the potential to develop cancer in the future.
I’m glad you feel this has turned out ok, but he sounds a bit bossy and not a particularly nice friend.

Catsmere · 05/12/2023 05:32

I agree with @FictionalCharacter , OP. Now he’s trying to blame you for how he feels about having retired! He sounds like less and less of a friend, tbh.

CallieQ · 05/12/2023 10:51

FreshWinterMorning · 04/12/2023 13:19

@CallieQ why are you not accepting that some women don't want to have a cervical smear? What's it to you? Why are you so insistent every woman should have them, and they are 'wrong' if they don't? As has been said, there are benefits to smears yes, but there are also risks.

Same with breast cancer screening, there are risks with that. I have been offered breast cancer screening several times since my mid 40s, and have refused it every time ... I will never have it, and I shan't be explaining why.

Screening is offered to detect cancer early and therefore save lives. I can't think of any sensible reason why anyone would refuse it

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 05/12/2023 11:42

CallieQ · 05/12/2023 10:51

Screening is offered to detect cancer early and therefore save lives. I can't think of any sensible reason why anyone would refuse it

Show quote history

Do you understand the concept of a risk vs. benefit assessment?

hydriotaphia · 05/12/2023 12:36

He is overreacting, but also you should have a smear test. Cervical cancer is truly awful.

Mischance · 05/12/2023 12:40

Can't see a problem with him being upset - he is concerned for your welfare - you should be grateful - and of course you should have the smear. If you can't face it without help ask your GP for a couple of valium.

Lemonyyy · 05/12/2023 12:44

I would be pretty pissed off at any man telling me what I should or shouldn't have put in my vagina - that's the central problem here and ultimately whatever his own personal feelings about it he can't tell you what to do with your cervix so he needs to butt the fuck out.

Shrammed · 05/12/2023 12:47

We should be honest. Cervical screening is not foolproof in preventing cervical cancer. And many women are reluctant to attend because they have a history of being sexually abused and find the process traumatic. Others find it painful. Women who are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cervical cancer should not be shamed into thinking that they are to blame for not being screened earlier, or at all—a guilt that does not seem to have attached itself to advertising for screening aimed at men. Women who do want screening should be enabled to have it. What is wrong with giving women the unadulterated facts?

Form BMJ article above and is spot on - why can't be be given facts included fact that screening will throw up false positives which can and does lead to unnecessary treatments.

At minute they only look if slides if you test positive for HPV virus - so why not test for that first rather than take samples and discard without looking. If you are worried you can pay for such a test privately - think super drug have a test kit.

But frankly think this male friend is massively overstepping boundaries and iI do wonder if he'd lecture a male friend in similar way about offered screening programs.

Original poster
pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 12:52

Another update. I saw my GP this morning regarding another issue and asked her about the smear tests. She didn't seem concerned that I have never had one. She said they stop at 65 but seeing as I am not sexually active at the moment and the tests only check for HPV now, as someone has said on here, not to worry about having one.

I have told this to my friend who has now realised and backed off with it but I still feel upset by the whole issue and the fact that he went off on one like that.

However, upwards and onwards and thanks for your support.

OP posts:
My3dahliasarebloominlovely · 05/12/2023 13:40

At 63 I was told that I no longer qualify for the biennial smear tests and it would be my last. I was very relieved as post menopause they have become more and more excruciating. Your body, your choice, OP.

VioletSkies12 · 05/12/2023 16:02

I wish my GP would lay off. I get constant calls, texts and letters about it. It feels vaguely intimidating

InSpainTheRain · 05/12/2023 16:07

Personally I have smear tests because I think it is safer. But it is up to the individual woman and none of his business. I'd say thank you for the advice, it's up to me and me alone, we now need to close this convo and move on because inwont keep talking about it.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 16:28

pussinboots61 · 04/12/2023 23:40

Hi just an update. I met my friend today and told him how I feel, that I have been depressed since our discussion and how I upset I am by the fact that he was going to fall out with me just because I won't have a smear test.

He said he wasn't going to unfriend me because of that, he knows its my life and my body and he can't make me do anything I don't want to do but he felt I wasn't listening to him and he was getting all upset about his Dad.

Someone has mentioned here about his recent retirement. Although he wanted to retire and he doesn't regret it, I agree that it is a big life change and I feel that may have something to do with it also. He did say that he feels as if I feel its his fault that he retired and isn't at work with me anymore, he hinted that I am making him feel that way. I have only said things in fun about it and usually he takes things in fun but now he's taking it the wrong way. Maybe this is why he reacted over the smear test.

I told him that he was being way over the top, that I won't be having a test and I don't want to discuss it anymore so I think things have calmed down now.

I can forgive but not forget so I will be wary of having future discussions about things like this with him but I am glad that we haven't fallen out.

He's not a friend. He's gaslighting and manipulative. All this blame stuff. And ultimatums about being your friend if you didn't behave in the way he liked. It's not good not healthy.

You'd be better off without him.

WickedSerious · 05/12/2023 16:54

Catsmere · 03/12/2023 19:52

My first was forced on me when I was in my twenties and didn't know doctors had no right to do that. She said she wouldn't prescribe the Pill if I didn't have it. It was so agonising I couldn't let her finish, and her comment afterward? "I didn't think any woman your age would be a virgin in this country."

It took thirty years before I had another and that was only because I had one random post-menopausal bleed. Fortunately the doctor was far more competent and decent than that godawful one.

Show quote history

Refusing to prescribe the pill seems to have been a pretty common tactic.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 17:00

That article is by Dr Margaret McCartney who also wrote The Patient Paradox - why sexed up medicine is bad for your health. Which everyone should read.

It's much acclaimed and really important to understand bias and conflict of agendas which aren't always good for patients.

She herself is a GP and has gone on record in the past (piece in a national newspaper - I forget which) about why SHE doesn't go for cervical screening. It was a controversial article but it was reasoned well and very hard to argue against given her medical background and her understanding of the subject.

She makes a clear distinction between screening and diagnostic tests which is important to stress.

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 17:15

pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 12:52

Another update. I saw my GP this morning regarding another issue and asked her about the smear tests. She didn't seem concerned that I have never had one. She said they stop at 65 but seeing as I am not sexually active at the moment and the tests only check for HPV now, as someone has said on here, not to worry about having one.

I have told this to my friend who has now realised and backed off with it but I still feel upset by the whole issue and the fact that he went off on one like that.

However, upwards and onwards and thanks for your support.

OP I would not be sharing any information about my personal life or medical history with this man. He sounds controlling and manipulative, and seems to be using you/your friendship as a source of releasing his frustrations with his own life. You are not his emotional support human or his figurative punching bag.

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 17:18

VioletSkies12 · 05/12/2023 16:02

I wish my GP would lay off. I get constant calls, texts and letters about it. It feels vaguely intimidating

Same here. I can't get a GP appointment for love or money but my god are those letters regular as clockwork!

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 17:23

Shrammed · 05/12/2023 12:47

We should be honest. Cervical screening is not foolproof in preventing cervical cancer. And many women are reluctant to attend because they have a history of being sexually abused and find the process traumatic. Others find it painful. Women who are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cervical cancer should not be shamed into thinking that they are to blame for not being screened earlier, or at all—a guilt that does not seem to have attached itself to advertising for screening aimed at men. Women who do want screening should be enabled to have it. What is wrong with giving women the unadulterated facts?

Form BMJ article above and is spot on - why can't be be given facts included fact that screening will throw up false positives which can and does lead to unnecessary treatments.

At minute they only look if slides if you test positive for HPV virus - so why not test for that first rather than take samples and discard without looking. If you are worried you can pay for such a test privately - think super drug have a test kit.

But frankly think this male friend is massively overstepping boundaries and iI do wonder if he'd lecture a male friend in similar way about offered screening programs.

Exactly, why put women through a potentially painful and uncomfortable procedure and then have the audacity to not even test their sample for the cancer you claim to be screening for?

And then try and shame, scare and emotionally manipulate women into accepting screening and attempt to blame them when they say no?

Oh yeah, we're women, we'll put up with it.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 17:53

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 17:18

Same here. I can't get a GP appointment for love or money but my god are those letters regular as clockwork!

Show quote history

I find it harassing. I asked to be taken off their lists. They wouldn't. They would only do it for two years. I have no idea why they won't respect my wishes. I have said I find it actively distressing. I don't want to be reminded. It's appalling. It's infantilising. And it put me off going to the doctor and trusting medical professionals entirely because they won't respect me. Another GP tried to deregister me because I wouldn't 'comply'. I wish they would just fuck off. It only serves to make me double down and avoid more. How can I trust someone with an intimate examination if they don't respect me? It's bonkers. I am fully aware of the risks and I'm willing to take that. Same way I'm willing to assess which other risks in my life I feel worth taking. I'm not fucking stupid.

Melroses · 05/12/2023 17:58

pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 12:52

Another update. I saw my GP this morning regarding another issue and asked her about the smear tests. She didn't seem concerned that I have never had one. She said they stop at 65 but seeing as I am not sexually active at the moment and the tests only check for HPV now, as someone has said on here, not to worry about having one.

I have told this to my friend who has now realised and backed off with it but I still feel upset by the whole issue and the fact that he went off on one like that.

However, upwards and onwards and thanks for your support.

That is good.

If you have your last clear test at or around 65 with no hpv in the tests leading up to it, then the lab will not accept any further tests. If you haven't had one, then the window is left open longer should things change and you feel that you need one.