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Original poster

To be upset with my friend - he is upset with me for not having a smear test

315 replies

pussinboots61 · 03/12/2023 00:17

This is a sensitive subject but here goes. I have never had a smear test. I do have reasons but I can't cope with the thoughts of it. I am now 62, been married twice, I haven't been sexually active for some time now.

I will go for other tests but refuse smears. I have a very close male friend who is more like family to me. I worked with him until he retired two weeks ago but we still keep in touch and meet up. I do rely on him a lot and he is very supportive.

The other night we were messaging each other and he just told me randomly about a doctor he had been listening to on the radio talking about smear tests. It was just a general chat and I just commented that I've never had one. He asked me why I am not concerned about my own body and why I won't go for a test and I just told him its something I have always feared.

Then he just went off on one about it, said I should look after myself but not only that, he said I had upset him very much. The conversation went very sparse after that and when I went to bed and messaged him goodnight he just said I had upset him in a big way.

The next day he continued to be off hand with me and when I asked him why he felt I had upset him he went on about how I don't care what happens to me and was on the verge of unfriending me the night before. I was stunned by this. I can understand him being concerned and maybe trying to persuade me to have a test but to want to fall out with me over it was baffling.

I ended up ringing him and then he told me that his Dad died from throat cancer, he had been a heavy smoker from a young age and at one time his GP had offered to give him tests to check if he was going develop cancer but he refused. He said it is now a sore point for him if anyone refuses to have tests. He said he will try and help me get over my fear of smear tests but wants me to have one because he doesn't want me to be in any danger.

I met my friend today for lunch and things were fine but I am still very hurt and upset by this. He wants me to tell him the reason why I am so scared but I don't want to talk about it. I have told him about other friends of mine who won't have certain tests, one of them won't have any test of any kind, she won't even do a urine sample for the doctor because she fears so much what they might find but he said that is them and I can't go on how other people are.

Is he right in being this way or am I overthinking it? I do suffer from depression and I was getting on a more even keel with some new medication I am on but this is setting me back again. I know he is concerned about me but this is just over the top.

OP posts:
Ardith · 05/12/2023 18:10

No one has a right to tell a woman that she has to have something shoved into her vagina.

No one.

Your friend is being a total jerk. Tell him never to mention the issue again or end the friendship.

A smear test is not like a blood test ffs, it’s pretty horrible, I’ve had a few in my life but way fewer than I’m ‘supposed to’ according to our male policymakers and male doctors. Smear tests leave me feeling violated, sore, and bleeding. (Except the one I had with private insurance, that was fine, so I guess money makes a difference.)

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 18:37

@RedToothBrush that's appalling. Can you imagine if any other organisation outside of the NHS refused to stop contacting people to keep offering them a service they do not want? And threatened them for non-compliance? They are literally threatening to de-register you because you won't give them access to your vagina. Appalling.

Original poster
pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 18:49

Just a question - does anyone here have mammograms, I will go for those, its just smear tests I avoid.

OP posts:
Catsmere · 05/12/2023 19:59

WickedSerious · 05/12/2023 16:54

Refusing to prescribe the pill seems to have been a pretty common tactic.

Show quote history

Yes, fortunately I changed practices immediately afterwards and the doctor I went to never tried pulling that shit or pushing smear tests on me.

Blablah1234 · 05/12/2023 20:36

So remove yourself from the screening programme? They are.obliged to chase non responders because anyone who doesn't wish to partake can remove themselves from recall with a simple notification. If you choose to stay on recall then you'll get chased in case you are just missing reminders

beanontoast · 05/12/2023 20:41

OP I also find smear tests awful due to previous sexual assault. I think your friend is overstepping and it’s your body your choice. May I make a suggestion though. You can get an at home HPV test now, either a self swab of the vagina or a urine sample. If you do not have HPV, you would be doing the same standard of test as a smear - they have changed in recent years, and your cell sample is now ONLY tested for cancerous cells IF you are HPV positive. If you do at an home HPV test and it comes back negative, this is the same as what the NHS would’ve done - they don’t send HPV negative samples off for the extra cancerous cell testing.

now, if you are HPV negative then happy days - you have done the same test you’d have had on a smear, without the trauma, and your friend can be satisfied. If you are HPV positive then you could consider trying to go for a smear (no judgement if this is too difficult but you would be making a more informed choice about whether to opt not to have one).

If you don’t want to do any of this and sod your friend’s judgement then I support you too. It’s very sad what he’s experienced but it doesn’t give him the right to dictate other people’s healthcare choices.

Daisybuttercup12345 · 05/12/2023 20:42

Grimchmas · 03/12/2023 00:24

Oh wow. He is massively overstepping and projecting his issues onto you. As a friend he has NO right to be upset or angry with you about the choices you make about your own healthcare.

He doesn't really sound like he respects your bodily autonomy at all. Nor that he is at all sensitive to why women might not want to disclose their reasons. It doesn't matter how close a friend he is, he has zero right to a discussion or an explanation from you about something so literally personal and intimate.

He is badly out of order.

This.
I would cool off with him over this.

beanontoast · 05/12/2023 20:43

Ardith · 05/12/2023 18:10

No one has a right to tell a woman that she has to have something shoved into her vagina.

No one.

Your friend is being a total jerk. Tell him never to mention the issue again or end the friendship.

A smear test is not like a blood test ffs, it’s pretty horrible, I’ve had a few in my life but way fewer than I’m ‘supposed to’ according to our male policymakers and male doctors. Smear tests leave me feeling violated, sore, and bleeding. (Except the one I had with private insurance, that was fine, so I guess money makes a difference.)

Not always, I had the most horrific private smear. Nurse didn’t seem to know what she was doing, took ages, bled loads, results came back inconclusive so had to go through it all again anyway. Went private because I thought it would be a better experience and actually the NHS one I went for the next time was heaps better. Sadly seems to be the luck of the draw.

HamBone · 05/12/2023 21:09

pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 18:49

Just a question - does anyone here have mammograms, I will go for those, its just smear tests I avoid.

@pussinboots61 Yes, where I live in the US mammograms are recommended annually from 40 onwards. They’re not v. comfortable, your breast is squeezed between two paddles to take the X-rays! But I’m glad I do as they saw some odd-looking spots a couple of years ago and had to do further investigation. Luckily benign but they’re monitoring them for any changes.

I can’t believe the awful experiences some ppl have had with smear tests. I’m no expert at all but I’m sure that intense pain and bleeding shouldn’t occur if they’re performed correctly. I’ve had several over the years and have never experienced this. I’m lucky to be with an excellent practice though.

RM2013 · 05/12/2023 21:12

His response was a little extreme and honestly it’s not really any of his business. I would encourage friends to get a smear test but I would also respect their choices - as others have already said it’s all about informed choice and making the choice that’s right for you

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 05/12/2023 21:30

pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 18:49

Just a question - does anyone here have mammograms, I will go for those, its just smear tests I avoid.

No. The overdiagnosis rate is unacceptable to me.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 22:11

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 18:37

@RedToothBrush that's appalling. Can you imagine if any other organisation outside of the NHS refused to stop contacting people to keep offering them a service they do not want? And threatened them for non-compliance? They are literally threatening to de-register you because you won't give them access to your vagina. Appalling.

It was a practice a number of GPs were in the habit of doing because they got paid for meeting targets. If they missed the targets they didn't get their money. It was a MASSIVE conflict of interest which wasn't patient focused.

The government apparently stepped in to say the practice was unacceptable and that GPs could not deregister on this basis. I have no idea if it stopped it though. I just know it was a big enough issue at one point that it led to intervention. It wasn't a one off at my GP.

I changed GPs for a number of reasons, but that was definitely one of them. It totally broke my trust and felt like it dehumanised me and that I was only good for their targets and finances. Any other time I had been they treated me like I was a total nuisance and weren't remotely interested. I guess I wasn't making them money. One doctor had a particularly bad reputation locally. From what I've heard she was eventually pushed out for it.

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 22:13

Blablah1234 · 05/12/2023 20:36

So remove yourself from the screening programme? They are.obliged to chase non responders because anyone who doesn't wish to partake can remove themselves from recall with a simple notification. If you choose to stay on recall then you'll get chased in case you are just missing reminders

I have TRIED REPEATEDLY TO DO THIS.

I think I tried THREE times now.

Its SO upsetting.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 05/12/2023 22:15

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 18:37

@RedToothBrush that's appalling. Can you imagine if any other organisation outside of the NHS refused to stop contacting people to keep offering them a service they do not want? And threatened them for non-compliance? They are literally threatening to de-register you because you won't give them access to your vagina. Appalling.

TV licence

Although off topic I know. But I don't have a TV licence or a driving licence, but I only get threatening letters trying to force me to pay for a service I don't want from one of them

Melroses · 05/12/2023 22:19

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 22:13

I have TRIED REPEATEDLY TO DO THIS.

I think I tried THREE times now.

Its SO upsetting.

Show quote history

Have you tried doing it online?

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 22:24

I don't need the third fucking degree about this. I have tried repeatedly.

This upsets me. Are you trying to upset me further?

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 23:00

@Blablah1234 have you looked at the process for requesting withdrawal? So you'd have to go through it with potentially two healthcare professionals and jump through all sorts of hoops.

It reminds me of the nonsense women have to go through if they want their tubes tied. I guess we're so silly they need to MAKE SURE we know what we're doing. I'm surprised they don't ask for written permission from our husbands...

To be upset with my friend - he is upset with me for not having a smear test
DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 23:05

beanontoast · 05/12/2023 20:41

OP I also find smear tests awful due to previous sexual assault. I think your friend is overstepping and it’s your body your choice. May I make a suggestion though. You can get an at home HPV test now, either a self swab of the vagina or a urine sample. If you do not have HPV, you would be doing the same standard of test as a smear - they have changed in recent years, and your cell sample is now ONLY tested for cancerous cells IF you are HPV positive. If you do at an home HPV test and it comes back negative, this is the same as what the NHS would’ve done - they don’t send HPV negative samples off for the extra cancerous cell testing.

now, if you are HPV negative then happy days - you have done the same test you’d have had on a smear, without the trauma, and your friend can be satisfied. If you are HPV positive then you could consider trying to go for a smear (no judgement if this is too difficult but you would be making a more informed choice about whether to opt not to have one).

If you don’t want to do any of this and sod your friend’s judgement then I support you too. It’s very sad what he’s experienced but it doesn’t give him the right to dictate other people’s healthcare choices.

So the NHS could ask for every woman to provide a urine sample to test for HPV, and then only perform a smear on those women who test positive rather than subjecting thousands upon thousands of women to a procedure that many find painful and traumatic? And this approach would provide them with the same outcome but in a much less invasive way and I dare say the uptake would be higher?

Now I wonder why they don't do that?

Tatumm · 05/12/2023 23:15

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 23:05

So the NHS could ask for every woman to provide a urine sample to test for HPV, and then only perform a smear on those women who test positive rather than subjecting thousands upon thousands of women to a procedure that many find painful and traumatic? And this approach would provide them with the same outcome but in a much less invasive way and I dare say the uptake would be higher?

Now I wonder why they don't do that?

Show quote history

Can any healthcare professional with a relevant background explain why this isn’t done?

Melroses · 05/12/2023 23:18

DropDeadFreida · 05/12/2023 23:00

@Blablah1234 have you looked at the process for requesting withdrawal? So you'd have to go through it with potentially two healthcare professionals and jump through all sorts of hoops.

It reminds me of the nonsense women have to go through if they want their tubes tied. I guess we're so silly they need to MAKE SURE we know what we're doing. I'm surprised they don't ask for written permission from our husbands...

I just filled in a form and scanned and e-mailed it to CSAC or something - found it buried in the reams of documents on the gov website, having followed links through about 5 of them. Then they just sent a letter and it was done.

crispcreambun · 06/12/2023 00:49

Tatumm · 05/12/2023 23:15

Can any healthcare professional with a relevant background explain why this isn’t done?

Show quote history

Not a healthcare professional but I would speculate that it’s because the current procedure also allows for a visual inspection of the cervix, along with the vulva and vagina—areas we are unlikely or unable to check ourselves for visual anomalies. Urine testing would be much cheaper and free up lots of resources but removes the ‘professional visual checkup’ benefit.

Like how going to the dentist isn’t just about your teeth and an eye test isn’t just about your vision. They can spot other problems before they get serious or, in some cases, life-threatening.

XenoBitch · 06/12/2023 00:53

crispcreambun · 06/12/2023 00:49

Not a healthcare professional but I would speculate that it’s because the current procedure also allows for a visual inspection of the cervix, along with the vulva and vagina—areas we are unlikely or unable to check ourselves for visual anomalies. Urine testing would be much cheaper and free up lots of resources but removes the ‘professional visual checkup’ benefit.

Like how going to the dentist isn’t just about your teeth and an eye test isn’t just about your vision. They can spot other problems before they get serious or, in some cases, life-threatening.

Show quote history

But no one gets grief about not seeing a dentist or optician. A woman not getting a smear... it seems to be everyone's business.

crispcreambun · 06/12/2023 01:00

XenoBitch · 06/12/2023 00:53

But no one gets grief about not seeing a dentist or optician. A woman not getting a smear... it seems to be everyone's business.

Show quote history

Because of the three, only smears are associated explicitly with cancer. And cancer is the big bad scary. It’s hammered into us that all screening, more screening, test for everything = good and morally right. Combine that with most of us knowing people dead from various cancers and emotions run high. Rightly and wrongly.

Nagado · 06/12/2023 01:16

pussinboots61 · 05/12/2023 18:49

Just a question - does anyone here have mammograms, I will go for those, its just smear tests I avoid.

I do. I don’t have smears and it’s not my intention to have any in the future unless I’m absolutely forced to, but I’m ok with mammograms.

Edited due to me not reading your updates. It’s quite interesting that he feels you’re not listening to him, but you’re telling him that there are private reasons for your decision but he’s refusing to hear that.

HamBone · 06/12/2023 01:20

I don’t know @XenoBitch , ppl can be pretty derogatory about bad teeth!

As for vision, it’s hard to function when you can’t see clearly and/or you start getting headaches due to eye strain. So going for a test in the early stages seems like an obvious step.

Whereas breast or cervical cancer can be quite advanced before the victim even realizes that there’s a problem.