Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

Unreasonable. You chose to send him to a C of E school, so you should expect that there will be some C of E influence similar to this in its curriculum. Let him go so that he experiences it and learns whether it is for him or not as he grows. It will be done in a generally child friendly way.

I went to a C of E primary school. I don't recall it being heavily weighted towards religious teaching, but there were assemblies where there were prayers and hymns, with a few stories from the Bible etc. There were some church services, but only now and then.

I'm not religious now as an adult. More an agnostic and definitely not a church goer.

My children all went to a non-faith state primary school. There were a few religious elements there too. Harvest Festival and Christmas Carol services held in the local church, visits from the local vicar now and then.

I think you’re overthinking it to be honest. We don’t attend a religious school but they still get taught RE. At age 5, my child took it all for fact. Because they’re kids. When they are old enough to form their own opinions, being involved in these activities at school likely won’t even factor.

think fine to request not to attend. almost no one is christian but those schools get a load of funding anyway so think they have to accommodate the catchment.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.

OP - "I know, we will help him decide, by deciding for him! so he only sees our side of things".

Genius 🙄

I think it is a bit of mind fuck to be told that a wafer is the body of someone dead, but I guess you'll believe anything at that age...

YAB utterly U. Yes I appreciate that you want your child to make their own decisions but that’s how they make their own decisions - by learning about different faiths. It’s not brainwashing, it’s taking part in a service. At a Cof E school.

yes you feel that you had no choice of schools but really you did and I think if you were going to take such an extreme stance (and I think this is extreme) you should have gone for another school, no matter the distance. There will be more religious elements in the months and years to come and you are creating a hassle for the school by withdrawing your child and also making him stand out as different.

my ds goes to a (private) school which was founded for the children of missionaries. All of his Muslim and Hindu classmates go to chapel weekly (there is a church on the school site) and their parents are confident in their faith that their children are not being converted.

there is the occasional atheist or agnostic family who make a big hoo ha about the religious aspect of the school but it is pointed out to them that they chose the school and the religious connection was hardly hidden with a great big church by the main car park !

While we were waiting for a nursery space to become available, we sent our older child (then 3 and a half) to a lovely Muslim childminder for a few months. He and the other minded children were regularly taken to our local mosque, I believe, for the equivalent of children's prayers/stay and play.

I can't say I minded at all. If anything, I thought it would be a good experience for him that he wouldn't otherwise be getting in our family. I did wonder how she managed to get him to behave/sit still, but she assured me that he was always very well-behaved.

So yes, I think YABU. All experiences and exposures to different cultures and ways of life are valuable at that age. Of course, you may not agree with or be part of a particular faith and all cultures have their ingrained issues. But by giving children exposure to different settings/groups/experiences, you are forming a tapestry of background knowledge in their minds in a way that will help them to contextualise their future experiences and understanding of the people they met who come from different backgrounds to theirs.

The British state is Christian, and here in the UK church and state are not separate. The UK is not a secular country like France....so Christian schools are allowed, and even the monarch's coronation will always be Christian based. We have a cross on our flag, and many of out laws are biblical based.

My children went to a CofE school despite me being an atheist. There were also many other children of various faiths who attended and every single one went to the church services. The children loved singing the songs, doing harvest festivals, Christmas carols etc.

They also welcomed parents, and other worshippers, to join in but they had to sit right at the back and not interact with the children. Can you do that and actually see what happens before banning your child?

Well this is why I don't think we should have any religion in schools (apart from RE of course). Of course you can withdraw him its fine, many people have no choice but to send their children to the local church school regardless of their preference.

Your child will make his own mind up.about religion regardless of wether he goes to the odd, church service
I was brought up as a Catholic attended church every Sunday
Went to a convent primary school and Catholic secondary school
I would describe myself as, at best agnostic, I'm very very lapsed.

Jealous of the JW girl? They don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays at all. No Christmas parties or decorations. Maybe you should convert to JW so your children don't have to be involved. A lot of people are forgetting the meaning of Christmas.

OP
Your question asked if you were BU?
Most say they felt you were.
My thoughts are you wanted us all to say how super clever you were...well, you're not.

What, and other religions aren't?!
Have you come across Hinduism? Buddhism? Read into those and then see what you think!

OP had choice

"Some of the replies appear be confusing learning about Christianity and practicing Christianity the former of which we are happy with."
So you wouldn't be happy with your DS practicing Christianity? Poor kid. just let him go to the church with his friends.

I think it would depend if the wafers are chocolate or not, I'd say if choc, go for it!

You are being dogmatic. And you have an unrealistic view of what a few church services can achieve. Signing a few hymns and hearing a minister give a sermon is not going to indoctrinate your without religion child to Christianity.

I started school without religion and left it a confident atheist. Despite taking part in nativity plays, hymn signing, learning about Easter and even some praying.

I always felt sorry for the kids who had to sit out of the religious things at school.

Especially when they were young and couldn't understand.

I think this is a bit of a mountain/molehill situation. Broadly speaking weren't any community schools in England/UK before the church started building and running them. If we got rid of them all there would be fewer places to go round. I suppose the local authorities could buy and maintain all the original buildings but that would be pretty expensive. The compromise has been that the C of E schools will usually consider themselves the community school and accept children of all faiths and none, making the religious part optional. As this school seems to have done.
Catholic schools are much more likely to refuse places to non catholic children and to make the RE compulsory.
Personally, I don't think attending the occasional service at school is going to do much harm. I wouldn't exclude my child because I would want them to join in with their friends.
I am in my 60s and we had a broadly C of E foundation in our school. We also had a school trip to the local synagogue which everyone found interesting. My DC went to the local C of E school and they had visits to the local temple and mosque. It wouldn't have occurred to me to pull them out.

I think it’s important for children of all ages to see and learn about different religions so that they are able to make up their own mind.
Personally, I think it would of been a good exp for your child to have attended and then you could have chatted it about it afterwards.

Why haven't you included any of the reasons why he "wouldn't have coped" with the two form entry mainstream school in your posts OP? What is it about a two form entry mainstream school that he wouldn't cope with? You'd get a lot more sympathy over your choice if you explained that. Without a reason, it's difficult to believe that the CofE school really was your only choice, it seems like more of a preference. Which is odd given your strong beliefs about religion.

Yes YABU. My children go to a CofE school and we’re not religious, but it is a great school the best by far in the area.

They go to church, talk about how god created everything… yada yada. They know mum and dad don’t believe in god, one of our children chooses to believe and one doesn’t. They may both change their minds as they grow up. As long as there is no ‘god fearing’ e.g - if you do/dont do x you will be punished by god etc… then you have to accept sending your child to a CofE school will inevitably involve being taught about god and Christianity.

Haven't read all comments but I think it's strange that you chose a CofE school but don't want your child to join in with any religious elements. I'm a Christian and curious about what bit worries you. Even if he chose to have a wafer, or chose to say amen at certain points, surely if you don't have faith then doing these things is meaningless and therefore harmless. Plenty of children engage along with their friends and then grow up deciding it's not for them. Saying amen doesn't commit you to a life of faith.

If you feel that strongly then I'd move schools, you can't expect him to go to a religious school with no religious elements involved, esp at Xmas!