To think it's not a foregone conclusion that Labour will win the next election?

[flashbac]

I am seeing things here and there predicting Keir Starmer being our next prime minister etc, as if its already been decided.

I won't be voting for them under Keir that's for sure. Their stance on Gaza is the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't care if the Tories get in again. I am so disenfranchised I dont give a shit and at least with the Tories its "better the devil you know" and not Labour pretending they give a shit about people/human rights.

That''s a pointless question, you might as well ask why we drive on the other side of the road or measure distance in miles. It doesn't automatically mean we should spend billions just to emulate others for no reason, and there is nothing to suggest having ID cards solves any of the issues mentioned.

Actually, having ID cards that prove entitlement to medical treatment etc is really quite important. Access to A&E or GP services and emergency care should be universal, but beyond that, probably only on NI contributions.

We travelled to Sri Lanka about 15 years ago and booked a holiday cottage. The owner had gone to the UK to visit her son, planning to have a non-urgent surgical procedure on the NHS during her holiday. She was declined on the grounds that she wasn't a UK citizen, hadn't contributed to the NHS, and was committing health tourism. She got back to Kandy spitting tacks.

She was declined on the grounds that she wasn't a UK citizen, hadn't contributed to the NHS, and was committing health tourism. She got back to Kandy spitting tacks.

Papyrophile presumably her son had told her that this procedure would have been possible for her. How silly of him not to research it properly.

Doesn’t that show that people do get declined with the current system, ie no ID cards

It’d be more concerning if your pp ended with she had the op

Not the same at all, dropping ID card requirements would offer huge savings for other countries, wonder why they don't do this if its such a wasted cause?

atm anyone can access primary care, using non photo ID non at all.

NHS guidelines state that you don't need proof of address, immigration status, ID or an NHS number to register with a GP. However, some GP surgeries ask for supporting documentation

I presume her son, who worked in the NHS, had assured her there would be no problem as the NHS treated everyone.

As usual, an overly-simplistic view. Are you sure all the NHS admin and medical staff will be happy to enforce this? What about all the time it will add?

So a UK ID card wasn't needed for her to be prevented from health tourism.

There are some issues with health tourism though god knows how extensive it is. I do remember when I had my first baby that there was a woman who had had a c section and was told afterwards she had to pay for her treatment; 15,000 pounds because she was not a citizen of the UK or any other covered group. Because there is near zero privacy in these wards not only I did I hear all of this with the NHS staff who told her but also the subsequent conversation in French where she called her family and was apparently quite angry that this wasn't free.

So another example of how this was dealt with without the need for an expensive ID cards setup.

I won’t vote for Labour under old splinter-arse-from-all-his-fence-sitting Starmer either. Kier Starmer would be a dreadful, useless PM. Even worse than we have now.

I have no idea who to vote for, but it won’t be Labour.

Why do people bother coming out with all this crap? Nothing could be worse than this.

I really hate the political divisions in the UK right now. I'm sort of in the middle, which seems to be a vacant space without representatives. If you don't like the extremely polarised views if you're not with us, you're the enemy then you are outwith any group. I am inclined to go to a country where I only speak enough of the language to buy bread and milk to escape all the oppobrium. Failing that, I shall deface my ballot paper. We need fewer MPs, much better paid.

It costs NHS England approx £300m per year & thats just people who come here just to use the NHS then there is the 1.2m people here illegally, how much does that cost? we don't know because they use fraudulent means to access.

Imagine giving £300m to 1000 GP surgeries in the worst inner city areas.

Yes NHS does stop some overseas visitors but not all by any means.

that there was a woman who had had a c section and was told afterwards she had to pay for her treatment; 15,000 pounds because she was not a citizen of the UK or any other covered group.

What happens if the patient hasn’t got the money nor any means of getting it?

I had no idea Kier was such a fan of Thatcher? How to lose friends and alienate people 101 this weekend.

You should read up on what Blair thought of Thatcher! makes Starmer praise look very weak.

TBH Thatcher was a lot more of a centralist than anyone in the current Tory party, people who served under her or Major have long since been booted out and she was of course a great European, a founder of the Single Market, so a bit of a lefty!!!

I thought the conversation was about the many ways in which Labour attempt to shoot itself in the foot on the run up to elections.?

Thatcher had vision

many will disagree with most of her policies but as leader of the party and getting done the plans she put in place, her dedication to her role, managing this as a woman back when it was a time she would have often been to only woman in the room at international meetings she can’t be knocked for this

i doubt Starmer will lose many voters over these comments most people are capable of understanding that you may strongly disagree with someone’s politics but admire some of their traits and the work they did

there are a few who will froth at the mere mention of Thatcher usually those on the far left of the party who are not interested in winning the next election anyway

How is saying you admire Thatcher doing that ? as you suggested.

Thatcher was extremely popular, i voted for her! much more middle of the road than say Sunak or Truss.

You'll have to explain how Labour has shot itself in the foot over this?

Having said that, unless you re over 50, you wont really know much about her.

Is it necessary to seed more discontent in the back benches with the polls the way they are? And how many Telegraph readers will be stirred to vote Labour anyway?

Elections are won in the middle. See Blair, Brown and every other Labour leader since 1997 except Corbyn. They all do this.

I could cheerfully vote for KIeir Starmer, Wes Streeting and Rachel Reeves right now, but I am a lot less enthusiastic about the hinterland. Call me racist if you like, but this is a north European country of Christian heritage with laws and rules built on those tenets, over 10 centuries. And I want it to remain liberal and democratic, with changes of government regulated by a democratic vote.

If you think the Islamic creed is superior, then there are lots of countries following Islamic principles. I prefer to live in a country where women have equal rights and don't have to hide their hair and faces. Where women and girls can be educated and enjoy exactly the same rights and freedoms as men. Where people are at liberty to prefer same-sex relationships without fear.

Its being reported way beyond the Telegraph.

"More discontent" yes there is a great deal on the Tory back benches.

Not when Keir Starmer is apparently lauding Thatcher.