To think it's not a foregone conclusion that Labour will win the next election?

[flashbac]

I am seeing things here and there predicting Keir Starmer being our next prime minister etc, as if its already been decided.

I won't be voting for them under Keir that's for sure. Their stance on Gaza is the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't care if the Tories get in again. I am so disenfranchised I dont give a shit and at least with the Tories its "better the devil you know" and not Labour pretending they give a shit about people/human rights.

Depressingly I'm not voting for who I think is best - I'm voting for who I think is the least worst, and has the best chance of winning the constituency. Given that the Tories are, without a doubt, the worst, that means either Labour or Lib Dems - but because I'm in a pretty safe Tory Constituency, it probably doesn't really matter either way.

I used to be a Labour Party member, but I quit once they started swinging to the right and began ignoring the membership.

I agree with PP's who won't vote for the Tories but don't feel able to vote Labour either. They aren't providing any clear messages of how they will changes things to the electorate in my opinion. The Shadow cabinet is light weight, I don't see any visionary thinking. Starmer is OK but not a leader, he'd make a good minister but not Prime Minister. I think Labour need to get back to basics, think about their core Northern voters, stop getting sucked into London centric politics.

Be careful what you wish for

Tories tend to come second to SNP far more often than any other party does. I know this flies in the face of the rhetoric of no Tories in Scotland, but there's a consistent high share of the vote and if we had just about any form of PR then there would be Scottish Tory MPs

I think we might see a record low turnout. So many are anti tory but can't bring themselves to vote for anyone else.

I wondered that as well @StrictlyAFemaleFemale

I don't know how anyone can objectively look at the Tories record over their time in power and the see the decline in almost every area of life and think "oh I'll have some more of that".

Pick any aspect of government / public life - health, policing, behaviour, the economy, etc - and we're considerably worse off than we were before the tories took power.

But then again, British apathy is legendary and if the tories can find the right combination of scapegoats for their failings who knows what will happen.

Probably lots of votes for independents too

I think part of the problem is that politics has become so toxic, fewer people want to go into it

The last 20+ years have seen a huge change in who goes into parliamentary politics. It is now very much dominated by exSPADs and lawyers.

Before that, there was a far greater proportion of those who had had a successful first career, so knew a lot about that sector, whether as the business owner/entrepreneur or as the Union leader. That brought so much experience to the House, and it was one of those things you only missed when it was gone.

A bit like insisting on competency in the carrying out of policies. Good administration and attention to detail seem to have vanished

I'll vote for them but only as best of a bad bunch.

I don't like Kier at all.

'and at least with the Tories its "better the devil you know" and not Labour pretending they give a shit about people/human rights.'

The situation in Israel-Gaza will be settled at an international level - it's way beyond how people feel in the U.K. Tragic but true.

The U.K. is a very, very minor player in this. Especially since we left the EU & therefore can't sway a large power bloc.

Making this the issue that decides your GE vote seems baffling to me.

And 'better the devil you know'? The defeatism of that statement is mind-blowing.
Handing 5 more years to a Party that is now at war with itself, torn between a faction hell-bent on a right-wing agenda & those trying to put a brake on that because it's destroying the U.K. ... that is ignoring material reality.

This shambolic government have absolutely fucked the economy & ransacked the public sector. They've pillaged and stripped bare the public goods we need (education, NHS), starved local councils, while feeding platitudes to the core vote (Boats! Rwanda!).
Decent housing is now an aspiration - wtf!
Aspiration is a fantasy - inequality has soared.
Businesses - at all levels - know the Conservative Party cannot and will not support them.

And there really is 'no money left'. It's been squandered and looted.

A vote for the Conservatives is like voting for the gang that broke into your home, smashed everything up, took everything - including the Christmas presents under the tee - and shat on the floor.

No one, no-one, rewards behaviour like that by inviting them back.

I think part of the problem is that politics has become so toxic, fewer people want to go into it

Fully agree. Just look at Tim Farron, an excellent MP for South Lakeland. He became leader of the libdems but was hounded out because of his personal religious views. That's a massive loss for the Libdems as he'd have been a popular leader and would have drawn in voters in a GE, just like Clegg did. Instead, most voters don't even know the name of the libdem leader and wouldn't recognise him in a line up, so they're no chance at all of being any kind of influence in the next GE. People thinking they may be part of a coalition are deluded - they'll be lucky to get a dozen seats with an invisible leader. Had Tim Farron stayed, they'd probably be looking at 50-100 seats.

I will vote for whoever is most likely to beat the tories in my constituency. Which won’t be Labour.

I think Starmer's stance on Gaza is likely to make his job harder because it is likely to disaffect the U.K. Muslim voters.

Whether it is enough to swing the election back to the Tories, I'm not sure, but probably reduce his majority.

No it isn’t, but the Tories have a huge amount of ground to make up if they’re going to have a chance.

I won’t vote Labour either but ‘better the devil you know’ is a weird attitude to take towards the tories if human rights are your concern! You would be far better to vote green if you want to register a protest vote against our two shitty predominating parties.

No and a lot can happen before a general election is called and during election campaign.

They have been ahead in polls for a long time now - which given how crap the current Tory are isn't hard - whether that actually translates to people going out to vote is different though.

Low turn out could mean other parties could do better - though biggest other party is SNP and they have their own problems.

No woman should be voting for Labour. They will destroy all our rights as the female sex. Children will be greatly damaged.

I think part of the problem is that politics has become so toxic, fewer people want to go into it

Absolutely. This is one of the reasons why I think that Boris has been so damaging to UK politics, because he was SO dodgy, and openly so - yet the electorate seemed to lap it up. Hes pretty much destroyed politics, because everyone is tarred with the same brush now. It begs the question, do you have to be a dodgy person to go into politics, or does politics make you dodgy?

I saw Arnold Schwarzenegger speaking on his book tour, he was saying that the one thing he always remembered was that he wasn't just the governor for republican Californians, he was the governor for Democrat Californians as well. He knew that there are certain things that should never be politicised (e.g healthcare, climate change, education) - they are things that should always be a priority and it was his job to find the best way to compromise and meet everyone's objectives. Its hard to argue with that point of view.

What I think should be policy in an ideal world is that someone should only be able to be a minister, if they have experience in that area. EG, for the Health secretary job, it should be someone like Dan Poulter, who is a practicing doctor still working in the NHS, or someone like Emma Lewell Buck who used to be a social worker...

Education secretary should be someone who has actually taught in a state school and understands the system....

But that will never happen.

There's never guarantees and labour tend to perform less well than predicted. I share similar concerns to others about labour but I still think tories are worse so hope that change does happen

@pacora I share your view, but I can't bring myself to vote Tory, and the other parties all have dodgy views on basic women's rights.

To abstain or spoil my ballot paper is a failure. I'm hoping a decent independent stands locally but if not, I have no idea who I will vote for.

I always vote Labour and live in a huge Labour stronghold. This is the first time in my life I've been conflicted. I would never vote conservative; their policies have decimated our area and Lib Dem's are a joke. But my Labour mp didn't even vote in the recent call for a ceasefire in Gaza and their cowardly attitude towards that and their wishy wishy approach to protecting single sex speared have made me unable to vote for Labour too.

Im honestly not sure what I'm going to do but I knew Labour was fucked when a Tory got into Blyth valley. I truly never thought I'd see the day.

Education secretary should be someone who has actually taught in a state school and understands the system....

Estelle Morris though she resigned - she also said she felt she had more influence as junior education secretary - which tallies for me with things Rory Stewart said in interview with Mary Beard about how ministries they have to rely on others to get things done and they can feel powerless and ineffectual at top.

Not sure if they will get in or not - Tories are doing so badly it's hard to imagine a decent opposition not getting in.

However, Starmer is alienating people like me - voted Labour all my life, but his treatment of Rosie Duffield is abhorrent, pandering to gender woo, ignoring the rights of women and safeguarding of children.

So I won't be voting for Labour for the first time ever, I won't be voting at all. So who knows?

Labour used to be the party for ordinary working people who were looking for fair distribution of wealth, access to good services (health, education etc) and support for the disadvantaged.

Its demographic has changed and imo not for the better.

@thebellagio

Absolutely. This is one of the reasons why I think that Boris has been so damaging to UK politics, because he was SO dodgy, and openly so - yet the electorate seemed to lap it up. Hes pretty much destroyed politics, because everyone is tarred with the same brush now. It begs the question, do you have to be a dodgy person to go into politics, or does politics make you dodgy?

We had dodgy politicians long before Boris! All political parties have had their share of corrupt, dishonest and incompetent people in positions of power and influence. It's nothing new. Scandals go back decades.

I think the number of people not voting will be at an all-time high. I have voted in every single election since I turned 18 nearly 40 years ago, and for the first time ever I’m considering not voting, as I genuinely have no idea which party I want to win. They all seem to have aspects to them that are awful. I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.