To think it's not a foregone conclusion that Labour will win the next election?

[flashbac]

I am seeing things here and there predicting Keir Starmer being our next prime minister etc, as if its already been decided.

I won't be voting for them under Keir that's for sure. Their stance on Gaza is the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't care if the Tories get in again. I am so disenfranchised I dont give a shit and at least with the Tories its "better the devil you know" and not Labour pretending they give a shit about people/human rights.

Exactly. It’s an incredibly complex issue which being forced to carry a bit of card wouldn’t even begin to solve.

No, it wouldn't solve the issue, but the absence of a photocard ID makes the black economy bigger and blacker.

No it doesn't, it's irrelevant, The absence of enforcement is the issue. ID cards are pointless if no-one looks at them.

No point in having a card when there's no-one to do the "routine check" you speak of.
I am against having to pay millions to get a card from the government to tell me who I am when they should be focusing on actual wrongdoers.
ID cards is a solution only favoured by people who haven't considered the practicalities properly.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and this is mine. If it was a voluntary opt-in, I'd opt in. Most of the EU has one, and requires them to be carried, so it's just about changing attitudes.

This.

They do have one but it doesn’t seem to be altering the issues they face

So we could spend millions and be where they are - still with the same problem

You try working in France on the black economy or getting healthcare? i can tell you its extremely hard, def a pull factor for the UK.

Doesn't the cost to UK tax payer of not collecting taxes, slave labour (as mentioned- Morecombe bay) and healthcare fraud bother people?

To the other poster, yes of course, pointless without enforcement, which regardless of what reg or law it is, the Tories have slashed the funding for.

France, Germany, Italy still all struggling with migration issues even with ID

Germany highest so it’s no great barrier

I’ll be voting for Labour and quite like Starmer.

No, you re just mixing up migration issues with illegal working/healthcare access, which is what i was referring too.

The Govt in the UK has just admitted it has no idea where 17,000 asylum seekers, now are, who have had their claims withdrawn.

You really don't think ID cards offer no solution?

Perhaps tell that to the EU, they'd save a fortune.

Are you saying ID cards have resolved migration issues for the EU?

Obviously that’s incorrect.

We’ll be in the same situation. Still struggling as they are.

How are you missing the pressures in other countries?

How do you think having ID cards would help the hapless civil servants to miraculously know where the missing people are?

If you don't get thats not what i said, then pointless carrying on with this with you.

Fine by me 😀

If you do want a country that actually has implemented policies that work it’s not within the EU… maybe look at that

Actually, I think state-issued ID cards are a minimal requirement. In the migration pathway, you arrive, have your finger prints taken and are issued with a basic idenditity card, with NI and NHS numbers. You hand that to your employer and 12 months later, you qualify for entry level NHS, so a GP or emergency service only. Dentistry is effectively privatised, so I am excluding it. from this post. After five years of work and paying tax, you are eligible to join a pension scheme and to buy a house as a settled citizen. And after 10 years, you can apply for citizenship. But compliance with the UK rules for a sensible period during which you don't have full access to every right, freedom or benefit should be fairly basic. Buying citizenship via property purchase is fairly odious, but I don't see how it could be eliminated.

Do you remember where you read this? I said similar earlier but it was just my hunch and I’d love a source to support it

@Papyrophile - I don't want an ID card to live in my own country. Is your suggestion that a UK citizen carry one?

I won't be voting for the odious cretinous Tory party. I will either vote independent or not vote at all (for the first time ever).
Labour's stance on women's rights and, lately, it's stance on Gaza has really pissed me off. I won't give them my support.

Nail on the head there.

Professional/financial service providers are forced to check ID documents for even the smallest of things. It costs millions and produces very little benefit, but it's an "easy target" for governments, because they can just pass on the cost and hassle to business.

Yet, the "authorities" and public sector seem to be exempt, i.e. social services, benefits, health service, etc., seem to be happy to not ask for identification at all, or accept the flimsiest forms of identity which aren't "proof" at all.

As usual, lack of proper enforcement by the authorities is the problem. Forcing people to carry an ID card is pointless unless public service providers etc actually start to grow a pair of balls when it comes to providing public services!

If ID cards are required at places like hospitals, GP surgeries, benefits claim offices, social services, police, etc., then sooner or later, such people will appear and can then be dealt with.

Likewise, if fingerprints and facial recognition are done, then again, if "illegals" present at a hospital or are arrested, their "true" identity (or at least the one they gave upon arrival) can be ascertained and they can be dealt with accordingly.

It's far too easy in the UK to live life in the black economy, far too easy to use false identities, etc.

You can't have hospital treatment in France (even as a citizen) without showing your passport. (They will see you in A&E and give urgent assistance, but anything more requires official ID).
I presume you can't work or claim benefits either without some sort of ID.

I presume you can't work or claim benefits either without some sort of ID.

That's supposed to be the case in the UK too. But as usual, the authorities (i.e. border force, HMRC, police, etc) aren't remotely interested and need a rocket up their arse before they do any policing of those laws when it comes to the black economy as such employers don't give a toss about such laws, they're "under the radar" often not even registered for tax/nic, pay cash in hand, ignore NMW laws, etc., so aren't bothered about the legality status of their employees. HMRC don't know about them (can't be bothered to look), police only care if someone gets seriously injured or dies, etc.

In the meantime, hundreds of thousands of genuine small businesses are trying their utmost to comply with the law, check passports, pay tax/nic, pay NMW, etc., yet HMRC come down on them like a ton of bricks for minor infringements.

As always, the authorities only go after the soft/easy targets to make themselves look good. Fast food places where "staff" are virtually treated as slaves living in squalor above the shop are left alone because they're in the "too hard" pile on the authority's desks!

Whilst I'm in favour of ID cards, I think the argument is pointless until we start enforcing the laws we already have and stop with the authorities being too lazy or too scared to deal with the real criminals operating the black economy!

Tbh I think AI will render ID cards redundant. For the first time in my life it will actually be possible for governments to recognise and identify people without one, their benefits status, tax, criminal record, banking etc. It is s huge change which is coming for all of us, not just migrants

Sooner the better.

First step to properly dealing with criminal gangs, the black economy, etc.