To think that you shouldn’t choose to rent an upstairs 2 bed flat if you have 4 noisy kids

[shatteredmama]

Just after your thoughts. We rent a ground floor flat, we expect to hear some of the usual sounds of upstairs neighbours such as footsteps, doors closing, washing machine, Hoover, the odd thud. Am absolutely fine with that.

A new couple moved into the flat upstairs, normal neighbour noises could be heard. No problem with that. Soon after they told me they had lied to our landlord and that it won’t just be the two of them, their 4 boys from the ages of 2 -11 would be coming over from their home country and living in that flat with them. Theirs is a 2 bedroom flat, no outside space, our flats are converted from 1 house. As she told me this she laughed and her exact words were oh you’ll know when they’ve arrived. Things are going to get very noisy!

Since the kids moved in the noise levels are ridiculous. Constant loud bangs, thuds, shouting, squealing, we can hear them running up and down their flat. It isn’t occasional. It’s all day every day as not all of them attend school.

I know kids make noise. On a couple of occasions I’ve knocked on and as nicely and politely as possible explained how it’s impacting us. For example when my child was crying and couldn’t go to sleep at bedtime because all the kids in the room above were jumping off the sofa onto the floor, our lampshade was swinging from the impact. At other times they’ve all been running and screeching so loud it sounds as though they are actually in our flat with us. The neighbours have then shrugged, argued back and said they’d try to keep the noise down but there’s nothing they can do.

I don’t know what we can do other than move out ourselves, but with the housing crisis the way it is, it wouldn’t be easy. I feel angry that they lied to get the tenancy and moved the family in knowing that it would disturb us and make our lives difficult.

Would any of you say I’m justified in feeling this way, any practical advice you’d give?

I'd have more sympathy if she made an effort to keep the children quiet. She seems to be one of those parents who don't believe in rules around acceptable noise levels.

If the family is that desperate for a place to live that they lied about the number of people in the home, they should be wise enough to ensure that they aren't nightmare neighbours. Definitely do all you can to improve your own quality of life. They clearly don't give a crap.

@shatteredmama not agreeing with every word you say doesn't make people "batshit crazy' , ' the type who need to shave their knuckles' or 'trolls' though.

As above.
How do you think you're coming across?

The neighbours have then shrugged, argued back and said they’d try to keep the noise down but there’s nothing they can do.

This is the bit that would annoy me. The neighbors know that their children are making excessive noise jumping on sofas, etc., but they’re not apologizing nor trying to reduce the noise.

Yes, they need somewhere to live, but they do sound like unpleasant people. It’s difficult to be sympathetic towards them.

Exactly@coveredindoghairs .

Definitely tell the landlord OP. I too would be irritated. You shouldn't have to move.

Good thinking OP. I wouldn't want to embarrass myself any more either if I were you. There's only so many people you can call 'stupid' 'thick' and 'trolls' before it dawns that perhaps you are the problem.

Spellings of neighbour and criticise are a bit of a give away.

Methinks you are not from our crowded isle.

The issue is boundaries. They lied to the landlord already to manipulate their own way and they openly told you. These are people who do not GAF maybe? Also maybe are hoping to be evicted so they can go on the council emergency housing register / social housing?

In other words they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being asked to leave. Especially if the issue is overcrowding and noise of children - these are not issues that the housing or a solicitor would call ASB or criminal, they're the noise of a family living in cramped accommodation.

Tell the LL
The council are not allowed to leave children homeless so they won’t be out in the streets

Or that I use a phone that tends to auto correct my words to americanized English and I'm too lazy to care?

Can I ask what the relevance would be if I wasn't from England?

@PinotViogner she's made it clear that foreigners make her uncomfortable. That's the relevance.

YANBU it sounds like a nightmare to be honest. Especially the ineffectual parenting -they will “try” to be more quiet. Just do it rather than trying!

I found it enough living above 2 feral children in a flat. I politely enquired if they could be less noisy from early until late. Neighbour informed me that they were now going to be more noisy. Cool. Gloves went off after that and l took great joy in slamming all doors at 6am when l left for work

@FrenchToastLover Eh? I can’t find that in the OP’s posts. Can you quote it.

This. What kind of moron thinks 4 children are a good idea in a flat, on top of not taking them out anywhere

Overcrowding is defined in law and written into statute under the Housing Act 1983.

It doesn't mean that anything has to be done about it, it means it's a legal definition.

For people seeking to gain a council / social housing home or assistance from the council to be helped to find an appropriate sized private rented flat, it helps gain extra priority if there are children living in overcrowding.

When adults choose to live in overcrowding, say for example eight construction workers choose to share bunk beds in two small rooms, there's little impetus for anything to be done about it.

If this family are seeking to be assisted to get more appropriate housing by the local authority, the OP could go some way to be helpful and kind as well as get their own needs met by making complaints to the landlord and council -but- they will have to tread carefully as the council will be quick to accuse the OP of prejudice, harassment, and hate, because they prefer to do that than house a vulnerable family and they'll go quite some way to make the OP the 'problem' in order to evade accepting the family as being in need.

Also as we know, living noise, no matter how unreasonable, is rarely if ever meets the threshold of statutory nuisance. So any complaints need to be very specific and explain in what way they have impacted the OP over and beyond that which is reasonable. There are numerous things the above household could do to mitigate noise, if they wish to be harmonious. Such as putting felt pads on doors so they don't slam, putting thick rugs down, asking children not to jump on and off furniture, not having TV and music blaring. Often high density households are really really quiet as they simply don't have the space to make noise as they're all living on top of one another but it's the high traffic up and down the stairs and the doors slamming in my experience.

Oh I'm aware of that but would still love to hear in their own words how they intend on justifying such a comment 😉

There is a housing crisis and there will more than likely be a reason they have had to go for a 2 bed

Don't you think they would choose somewhere with more rooms if they could

Definitions of overcrowding in UK legislation are very much related to health and safety, especially fire health and safety, as well as dignity, personal safety, access to toilet and washroom, and rights to privacy as well as space and movement hazards.

It's more serious if there's multiple families in one shared space and non-related persons sharing spaces and facilities with other people's children. However, when it comes to parents and their own children inside one flat it's harder to 'accuse' (for want of a better word) a couple being overcrowded if they're OK with it and especially if their family has grown whilst being in residence, not the case here.

Evidently I ve got here a tad late but OP I'm right there with you. Dealing with my own neighbours from hell atm so solidarity with you and hope everything gets sorted. Despite some comments here I think it's unlikely in any event to end with homelessness so don't be put off to say something to relevant authorities.

That being said I think you could have saved yourself a lot of grief if you worded your title a bit better lol

@Needmoresleep I'm also wondering what pp's nationality has to do with anything?! Bit out of left field there.

A desperate person maybe who doesn't have a great deal of options or alternatives?

A person who is from a culture and society so wildly different than UK domestic living that they are thrilled with the level of facilities, relative luxury, and safety a small flat provides?

A person who has fled and gained safety from a despotic brutal regime where they were at threat of loss of life on a daily basis? Who knows?

It's hard to get four kids ready to go outdoors and maybe they're just revelling on being indoors for now and resting and relaxing and aren't ready to go out exploring? Maybe they don't have winter coats and heavy waterproof shoes, who knows? It's nobody's business but theirs and they might need some assistance.

Surely if you lie your way into a flat and know your dc are noisy then you parent better. Allowing constant jumping and shouting in an upstairs flat is just inconsiderate. I'd report. Why should the OP suffer because people can't manage their dc better

Problem is all of the noise and disruption kind of is making it someone else’s business. I appreciate you don’t always get as many children as you can handle -l had twins earlier this year and that shop is now shut. But come on 4?! My dad was middle child of 6 and was disciplined so it must definitely can be done. Rather than the “try” nonsense

As soon as you knew 4 children were going to be living upstairs, you should have informed the landlord. Now they are actually here, it's going to be much more difficult. You still need to inform the landlord. They lied... I'm sure their tenancy agreement will state occupancy rules.

The longer you wait, the longer you suffer.

Disciplining small children into being silent sounds like abuse to me.

The issue is that this family is here and they are real. Their living noises are real and really disturbing the person below. However, going off on judgments about who are they, where are they from, why they lie, why they have so many kids, why they don't go out... etc... is completely redundant.

Thinking like that is also fast track to an allegation of prejudice or racism from local housing officers who have a full and comprehensive understanding of why desperate people come to live in the UK and are overcrowded and absolutely do not hold hateful or racist views on the matter (many housing officers come from difficult origins and diverse backgrounds themselves, they're extremely compassionate people). It's also just going to build tension on top of tension and what needs to be found is a livable solution -or- the correct and accurate complaints to the right authorities who can assist on both sides.

For example, asking local child protection service to check if the kids have unmet welfare needs is not a hateful thing to do. Asking the landlord if they have a larger more appropriate flat is not a hateful thing to do. Asking the council to intervene and assist the family with social housing because of the overcrowding is not a hateful thing to do. Snarking at why a mother stays indoors all day comes off as harassment and could be construed as a hate crime.