To think that you shouldn’t choose to rent an upstairs 2 bed flat if you have 4 noisy kids

[shatteredmama]

Just after your thoughts. We rent a ground floor flat, we expect to hear some of the usual sounds of upstairs neighbours such as footsteps, doors closing, washing machine, Hoover, the odd thud. Am absolutely fine with that.

A new couple moved into the flat upstairs, normal neighbour noises could be heard. No problem with that. Soon after they told me they had lied to our landlord and that it won’t just be the two of them, their 4 boys from the ages of 2 -11 would be coming over from their home country and living in that flat with them. Theirs is a 2 bedroom flat, no outside space, our flats are converted from 1 house. As she told me this she laughed and her exact words were oh you’ll know when they’ve arrived. Things are going to get very noisy!

Since the kids moved in the noise levels are ridiculous. Constant loud bangs, thuds, shouting, squealing, we can hear them running up and down their flat. It isn’t occasional. It’s all day every day as not all of them attend school.

I know kids make noise. On a couple of occasions I’ve knocked on and as nicely and politely as possible explained how it’s impacting us. For example when my child was crying and couldn’t go to sleep at bedtime because all the kids in the room above were jumping off the sofa onto the floor, our lampshade was swinging from the impact. At other times they’ve all been running and screeching so loud it sounds as though they are actually in our flat with us. The neighbours have then shrugged, argued back and said they’d try to keep the noise down but there’s nothing they can do.

I don’t know what we can do other than move out ourselves, but with the housing crisis the way it is, it wouldn’t be easy. I feel angry that they lied to get the tenancy and moved the family in knowing that it would disturb us and make our lives difficult.

Would any of you say I’m justified in feeling this way, any practical advice you’d give?

No one has said silence. But come on, they were making the original posters lampshade sway! You can’t do that from enthusiastic talking or giggling. It’s not all about the upstairs neighbours, other people live in that house and area. Ok if you want to not discipline your children and let them do their thing, you need to do that in a detached property and / or away from neighbours

Why aren't all of the children in school?!

Speak to the landlord @shatteredmama . Ask about soundproofing. I think the landlord should be told. I was previously living in a 2 bed flat and there was a maximum occupancy rule of 4 people. If there are 6 people living in a 2 bedroom flat, this is overcrowding and might impact his/her insurance, could increase risk of damp/mold (IE if landlord is assuming 2 people living there and there are actually 6, then there is 3x the expected amount of showers, washing drying on radiators etc), increased risk of damage to the property etc. Landlord has a right to know, surely.

Op if you have enough balls to call out people on this thread what is stopping you emailing your shared ll about this, for a year?
Write it now, it's OK to complain.

I wholeheartedly agree that one should not have to live with thunderous and shaking rumbling noise from overhead.

I had one couple above me once and they had a tiny toddler. At some point, tiny toddler devised a circuit around the front room that culminated with a dive off the sofa. I never saw her do this, I didn't need to, I could hear every single footstep of it, then a slight pause before 'boom' which was the jumping bit. Honestly thought she was going to come through the ceiling. I figured out there's only so long a two - three year old can run circuits per session before being bored or tired and would go in my bedroom for the duration, with gritted teeth. But anyway it kept on and got worse and the child was growing bigger.

Eventually I went upstairs one day whilst it was happening and expressed my concern that the ceiling was going to break and it sounded as if a bomb was going off my end. My neighbours were really lovely about it and it never happened again. I can't believe it took me so long to say something. But I know about neighbour noise, oh my gosh that's the very least and cutest of all horrors. But the point is, that one can only say, 'I'm going out of my mind with the stress of this noise, I've got a headache, I can't sleep, I'm scared the ceilings going to break' and not 'why are you allowing your child to make this noise' or 'you need to discipline your children'.

Exactly this! These are always such strawman arguments - we all know that in the vast majority of these cases it IS because people are just having more kids than they can support.

But this is beside the point. People's circumstances change. In my own childhood we went from OK off to destitute over night. From owning a house to homeless on the spot.

People start out in one situation and end up in a wildly different one - especially if it involves international unrest, war torn countries, natural disasters, persecution, ethnic cleansing, war crimes.

Beside that point again, there are many cultures and religions within which they believe it is a duty to have as many children as possible. Who are 'we' (whoever we are) to say one society or culture's or religion's way of life is right or wrong ?

If you think a child is in need then help them. If you think parents of children are in need then help them. What's the alternative? Hate and judge them from afar, from your moral superiority? We're all here on this one planet, spiritual beings in human bodies.

Sorry but it's not beside the point at all. Yes, we know those things happen - but I genuinely believe they are the exception rather than the rule.

On your point about certain cultures believing 'it's a duty to have as many children as possible'. That's as maybe. But those people also have a 'duty' to adequately support all those children. That goes without saying, surely?

And, yes, we should always seek to help others. But personal responsibility must come into play also.

But personal responsibility for what? If the parents took responsibility for removing their children from a dangerous and lacking country (we don't know their backstory) and have moved country to house them adequately and safely, that's a huge responsibility! It may have been at huge cost, risk, effort to them. I'd imagine they're applying for / actively seeking or at least hoping for bigger accommodation.

And since they're in this situation already then what 'personal responsibility' should they take more - you mean you want to see them punished somehow? For what? For being the annoying vision of an overcrowded migrant family that buys into a stereotypical prejudiced view of feckless men with too many children coming over here and taking our flats and making their wives stay indoors all day. Well perhaps a man with many kids and a wife is working towards exactly how to get them out of this situation into a better one right this minute now? We don't know anything about him. And even if he isn't, so what, the family have the right to exist, there's no hierarchy of being an alive human being.

Jesus, why do you keep coming back with the same argument? Not everyone is a victim. Some people just make bad choices. Like having more children than they can afford to support. The End.

Soot on, @Jumpingthruhoops

This tripe that parents can do no wrong is so tiresome. Some people are just plain selfish assholes.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Clearly you have no idea what’s involved in eviction. They’d be bloody lucky to have them out in 12 months time if they start now.

"Who are 'we' (whoever we are) to say one society or culture's or religion's way of life is right or wrong ? "

"We" are the people who are affected by overpopulation, economically, environmentally, socially, financially and through nuisances such as the OP is experiencing.

This isn't 1823. The planet is crowded, resources are dwindling, climate change is real and the main driver of all of our 21st century woes is human population. Those breeding beyond replacement rate should be held accountable.

Why did the OP
Ignore everyone saying tell the ll? Weird.

Do not ring 101 as this is a council issue not a police issue

@JFT

A person who is from a culture and society so wildly different than UK domestic living that they are thrilled with the level of facilities, relative luxury, and safety a small flat provides?

A person who has fled and gained safety from a despotic brutal regime where they were at threat of loss of life on a daily basis? Who knows?

Are you saying it's ok for families to behave like arseholes because they come from another country?

No wonder the OP has had enough of this thread.

Tell the landlord. They lied about how many people would be living there and they’re probably breaching the terms of their lease.

Why did the OP
Ignore everyone saying tell the ll? Weird.

She says she's going to ring the landlord on Monday

You poor thing, noisy neighbours can make your life hell and I wish people had more protection against them.

You should report the situation to the landlord and the council - record it so they can decide if it is standard family noise or not.

It does take a long time for anything to happen so I’d look for somewhere else in the meantime but with the housing crisis you may not find anything. Also look into what sound proofing can be done.

I am so sorry this is happening to you.

This is absolutely true and worth repeating!

If only life was that simple eh?

Some of us parents can't get life or critical illness insurance at any cost.

Should we not be allowed to have children?

I disagree. I have four kids, a 2 bed flat for us all is a terrible idea.

the tenant lied to get the property and the kids sound wild (like mine). Any consequences is on the tenant in afraid. I couldn’t kid like OP is being forced to and I would report it.

A 2 bed flat for 6 people is a bloody awful idea. What parent would have 4 kids and say no thanks, I don't want that 3, 4 or 5 bed house that is available, offered to me and affordable, I would prefer to take this 2 bed flat and be hugely overcrowded and make everyone miserable.

There are 3 possibilities that I can think of.

It's absolutely all they can afford and it's too late for abortions.

They could afford to pay more but haven't been able to find anywhere either bigger or even just same size but ground floor so at least they won't be a nuisance.

They chose a place that would make them overcrowded so that they would get higher up on the council/housing association waiting list. Probably because of the first possibility.

I think the "you shouldn't have more children than you can support" is pretty futile because a) circumstances change but also b) even if your circumstances weren't entirely suitable, children are permenant so you can't take them back!!

However any of the following could be true at the same time

• that flat is the only thing the family can afford
• no other suitable housing is either available for them either within or outside their budget
• OPS flat is the only one she can afford
• no other suitable housing is available either within or outside their budget
• the family don't take their children out so they are excessively noisy
• the family do take their family out at times OP is also out....but are also very noisy indoors
• they are not being excessively noisy that is the standard noise of a family of 6
• the parents are allowing boistrous behaviour that's going to impact the flat downstairs more than strictly necessary
• the flat is poorly designed/insulated against noise

To the likes of you? I couldn’t give a shit. You’re the one who started being arsey with me. Have a nice life hun

You don't recall starting the 'arsey'ness with your dismissive and patronising 'off you trot'?

Ah, but of course you don't.

Again, we can all see how you're coming across, even if you can't.

You're continuing it with the patronising 'hun'.