To think that you shouldn’t choose to rent an upstairs 2 bed flat if you have 4 noisy kids

[shatteredmama]

Just after your thoughts. We rent a ground floor flat, we expect to hear some of the usual sounds of upstairs neighbours such as footsteps, doors closing, washing machine, Hoover, the odd thud. Am absolutely fine with that.

A new couple moved into the flat upstairs, normal neighbour noises could be heard. No problem with that. Soon after they told me they had lied to our landlord and that it won’t just be the two of them, their 4 boys from the ages of 2 -11 would be coming over from their home country and living in that flat with them. Theirs is a 2 bedroom flat, no outside space, our flats are converted from 1 house. As she told me this she laughed and her exact words were oh you’ll know when they’ve arrived. Things are going to get very noisy!

Since the kids moved in the noise levels are ridiculous. Constant loud bangs, thuds, shouting, squealing, we can hear them running up and down their flat. It isn’t occasional. It’s all day every day as not all of them attend school.

I know kids make noise. On a couple of occasions I’ve knocked on and as nicely and politely as possible explained how it’s impacting us. For example when my child was crying and couldn’t go to sleep at bedtime because all the kids in the room above were jumping off the sofa onto the floor, our lampshade was swinging from the impact. At other times they’ve all been running and screeching so loud it sounds as though they are actually in our flat with us. The neighbours have then shrugged, argued back and said they’d try to keep the noise down but there’s nothing they can do.

I don’t know what we can do other than move out ourselves, but with the housing crisis the way it is, it wouldn’t be easy. I feel angry that they lied to get the tenancy and moved the family in knowing that it would disturb us and make our lives difficult.

Would any of you say I’m justified in feeling this way, any practical advice you’d give?

You don't know that.
People's circumstances change, they lose jobs, get ill, have a disabled child.
Stop being so judgemental.

Def tell the landlord immediately.

No it's a prime example of people coming to a new country and needing some time to get set up in life.
They are paying to house their kids and paying their way.
How do you even know if their home country had access to abortion or if they're just making the best of it? Are you psychic?

They are probably over crowded and also not following the terms of their lease. I would talk to the council about it and also your landlord. For those saying they will get evicted, there is no evidence of that and perhaps they could get onto a council waiting list for a suitable property. They also won’t get chucked onto the street as the council has an obligation to house them. I do know there is a massive shortage of family properties but 4 children in a two bed flat is tough on everyone and there’s no reason why the OP should have to tolerate the excessive noise. Hopefully the family can be allocated some suitable accommodation in the long term.

I know families living in bed and breakfasts for years. The council aren't going to house them immediately just because op dosent like hearing the footsteps

KaiserChefs

I’m not racist/xenophobic. Merely mentioned that the 4 kids joined at a later date from their home country as a way of explaining that the noise was ok with just the parents there. It was when the kids moved in approx 4 months later that things got too noisy. Part of the reason I’m going carefully about this with them is for fear of seeming racist.

@WanderingWitches

And people should anticipate changing circumstances when making reproductive choices. Economic ebb & flow, job loss/change, illness, etc occur in most lifetimes.

Just producing human after human without sufficient resources is vile.

If everyone did that, nobody but the mega rich would have kids.
Producing other humans when you are not rich isn't vile, it's you who is vile..

How do you know how they are paying the rent or if they are paying their own way?

It's very dishonest of the people to lie in the first place

Yanbu

I agree. They are living where they can afford. People nowadays have to accept places that they wouldn't have looked at years ago. I know a couple, thirties, with a 4.5 year old child who bought a one bed ex-council flat. They could afford nothing more. They've cordoned off a bit of the sitting room as her bedroom and she keeps her stuff in there. They are happy with it, it's not forever.

Of course it is noisy when there are children but presumably the younger ones go to bed not too late and they will all be at school. You could insulate your ceilings, it is possible. My son who is a musician has soundproofed all sorts of places in his house and it works, didn't cost the earth.

YANBU. I would report them to the landlord. I can't imagine that any sensible landlord would rent a 2 bed flat to a family with 4 children as it would be huge wear and tear and overcrowding. They have obtained the tenancy agreement fraudulently and he may wish to evict them.

You shouldn't have to move yourself

They didn’t tell the landlord because the landlord wouldn’t have rented it to them and for good reason. They are overcrowded which has negative implications for them, for the condition of the property and obviously now for yourselves as their neighbours. I’d be letting the landlord know, if he issues them with notice then they will be considered in housing need which the council can assist with, you won’t be making anybody homeless, that’s ridiculous.

KaiserChefs

KaiserChefs - are you my neighbour? Stop getting so excited about the fact they are not from the UK. I don’t have a problem with that and understand perhaps they needed a place to live in initially. The kids have been there for approx 1 year now. I would’ve hoped they’d have found a suitable home within that time if that was their plan.

Won't the landlord find out soon anyway? There's no way they're going to be able to hide 4 children when inspection time comes unless they are severely neglected and have no beds, clothes, toys etc in the house

Hmm. Easily said. I remember a Bishop dealing with this question on R4. His parents had 3 children which they could easily afford - then his dad died throwing the family into poverty...

It’s the landlord I feel sorry for. Poor sod’s insurance will be null and void and he could face serious implications if this is discovered. I’d let him know OP.

The landlord needs to be told.

Sympathies op as I'm underneath a 2 bed flat with a family of 4 kids, 2 dogs and twins on the way! 😱

I don't think I could make them homeless though. You mention that they are not from UK, what if you let them know that the council would help them if they are made homeless? They might not be aware. But then of course they would have to go through the hostel/b&b/emergency housing procedure that could last years depending on where you are. Tricky one.

That's what life insurance is for, @NanFlanders

Every parent should have coverage.

Regardless of the noise they shouldn't have lied to the landlord, tell the landlord, its their choice whether they want that many people in a 2 bed flat and they have a right to know.

OP is entitled to quiet enjoyment of her flat.

The people above are denying her this. It looks as if the cause is over occupation, but that is not the point. OP should be able to enjoy her flat.

1. Inform the landlord/letting agent. Nuisance neighbours, because that is what they are, will reduce the value of his property. Also read the lease. The landlord is under an obligation to provide suitable accommodation. In the first instance working him, but if he does nothing, ask for a reduction to reflect the loss of amenity.

1. Look for somewhere else. Depending on the landlord of the flat upstairs and whether they are prepared to act, it could go on for a long time.

1. Give your landlord details any details you might have of the landlord above or of the letting agent.

1. The landlord above could well be pissed off about being lied to. They could well be unhappy about the additional wear and tear of having six people in the flat. (Condensation levels are probably really high with a risk of dangerous mould.) He might be able to do something short term like put in some carpet.

I hate the way that people on these threads are so quick to suggest racism. Six rugby club boys or six grannies would be a problem. The problem is over occupation. The flat is not suitable for a family of six.

If you get nowhere with the landlord you could also try the Council private housing people. You might start with the HMO team, though as a single household they won't want fall under HMO provisions.

Really? Why should she be the one to move?

You should inform the landlord and ask them to take action. If they've been lied to they are not likely to be happy. Also is there a building management company? Report it to them - there may be a clause in the leasehold contract for example limiting occupancy to single people or couples.

As for the people asking "where should the live then" the answer is simple - a home designed for the number of people their family unit comprises of. Also a home where they don't have to lie to the landlord to be accepted for.

Record the noise and video the lampshades swinging and send to the landlord also telling them about the kids the tenant didn't mention. It's overcrowded and totally unsuitable for a 6 person family.