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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that you shouldn’t choose to rent an upstairs 2 bed flat if you have 4 noisy kids

405 replies

shatteredmama · 25/11/2023 14:51

Just after your thoughts. We rent a ground floor flat, we expect to hear some of the usual sounds of upstairs neighbours such as footsteps, doors closing, washing machine, Hoover, the odd thud. Am absolutely fine with that.

A new couple moved into the flat upstairs, normal neighbour noises could be heard. No problem with that. Soon after they told me they had lied to our landlord and that it won’t just be the two of them, their 4 boys from the ages of 2 -11 would be coming over from their home country and living in that flat with them. Theirs is a 2 bedroom flat, no outside space, our flats are converted from 1 house. As she told me this she laughed and her exact words were oh you’ll know when they’ve arrived. Things are going to get very noisy!

Since the kids moved in the noise levels are ridiculous. Constant loud bangs, thuds, shouting, squealing, we can hear them running up and down their flat. It isn’t occasional. It’s all day every day as not all of them attend school.

I know kids make noise. On a couple of occasions I’ve knocked on and as nicely and politely as possible explained how it’s impacting us. For example when my child was crying and couldn’t go to sleep at bedtime because all the kids in the room above were jumping off the sofa onto the floor, our lampshade was swinging from the impact. At other times they’ve all been running and screeching so loud it sounds as though they are actually in our flat with us. The neighbours have then shrugged, argued back and said they’d try to keep the noise down but there’s nothing they can do.

I don’t know what we can do other than move out ourselves, but with the housing crisis the way it is, it wouldn’t be easy. I feel angry that they lied to get the tenancy and moved the family in knowing that it would disturb us and make our lives difficult.

Would any of you say I’m justified in feeling this way, any practical advice you’d give?

OP posts:
shivawn · 25/11/2023 16:29

@sollenwir Right. Wonderful advice. So you are suggesting its the OP's problem by saying she should just be understanding and put up with it.

Pudmyboy · 25/11/2023 16:29

Spirallingdownwards · 25/11/2023 15:38

"overcrowding" is a council concept and not a thing for owners or private renters who pay for what they can afford.

I don't think this is the case from watching programmes with titles like slum landlord/rogue tenants (know it's called something else but similar).
In the slum landlord part council often visit housing and say they are dangerously overcrowded so in the rental market it is a thing. Probably to do with fire regs

DisquietintheRanks · 25/11/2023 16:30

NanFlanders · 25/11/2023 15:19

Hmm. Easily said. I remember a Bishop dealing with this question on R4. His parents had 3 children which they could easily afford - then his dad died throwing the family into poverty...

Thats such a bullshit explanation though. Unless you grow up under a rock you know things can change. You know that illness, death, divorce, disability can occur at any time. And you also know that the more children you have the harder it would be to cope with those changes if they happen.

Having more than a child or two is a gamble, unless you are super wealthy or a subsistence farmer without access to healthcare.

CwmYoy · 25/11/2023 16:31

Complain to the landlord every single day until he gets rid of them.

Notmetoo · 25/11/2023 16:35

LaurieStrode · 25/11/2023 14:59

Report to the landlord. They are scurvy to lie their way in, at your expense.

Their need for accommodation is not your problem.

Maybe they were desperate and it's all they could find.
Surely 4 homeless children is everyone's problem.
Yes it's annoying and I agree they could try and be more considerate but a little compassion would be nice.

sollenwir · 25/11/2023 16:35

shivawn · 25/11/2023 16:29

@sollenwir Right. Wonderful advice. So you are suggesting its the OP's problem by saying she should just be understanding and put up with it.

Again, I haven't said it's the OPs problem or that she should 'put up' with anything, but some understanding might help her in the short term.

If she does complain to the Landlord, which she wouldn't be unreasonable to do, it's unlikely they're going to be moving immediately because evictions don't tend to happen that quickly even when there's good reasons to evict.

PeterOhanrahahanrahan · 25/11/2023 16:36

Needmoresleep · 25/11/2023 15:27

OP is entitled to quiet enjoyment of her flat.

The people above are denying her this. It looks as if the cause is over occupation, but that is not the point. OP should be able to enjoy her flat.

  1. Inform the landlord/letting agent. Nuisance neighbours, because that is what they are, will reduce the value of his property. Also read the lease. The landlord is under an obligation to provide suitable accommodation. In the first instance working him, but if he does nothing, ask for a reduction to reflect the loss of amenity.
  1. Look for somewhere else. Depending on the landlord of the flat upstairs and whether they are prepared to act, it could go on for a long time.
  1. Give your landlord details any details you might have of the landlord above or of the letting agent.
  1. The landlord above could well be pissed off about being lied to. They could well be unhappy about the additional wear and tear of having six people in the flat. (Condensation levels are probably really high with a risk of dangerous mould.) He might be able to do something short term like put in some carpet.

I hate the way that people on these threads are so quick to suggest racism. Six rugby club boys or six grannies would be a problem. The problem is over occupation. The flat is not suitable for a family of six.

If you get nowhere with the landlord you could also try the Council private housing people. You might start with the HMO team, though as a single household they won't want fall under HMO provisions.

That isn't what "quiet enjoyment" means.

What the OP is describing is living noise which is very unlikely to be a statutory nuisance and the Council's HMO licensing team won't be interested as it's not a HMO - it's one family. Even if they are breaching the tenancy agreement the landlord doesn't have to take action on the OP's behalf, it's between the landlord and tenant.

Best thing the OP can do is talk to their neighbours. Explain the times when the problem is worst and what the neighbour could do to improve. If they don't have floor coverings suggest they get secondhand rugs - there are projects in some cities which help tenants with carpets and furniture which they'd struggle to afford otherwise. OP could consider soundproofing their own ceiling - not cheap and results are variable but it would probably reduce the noise to some degree and they'd feel more in control.

sollenwir · 25/11/2023 16:36

CwmYoy · 25/11/2023 16:31

Complain to the landlord every single day until he gets rid of them.

The landlord will still have to follow correct procedures, so contacting them every day isn't realistic.

CwmYoy · 25/11/2023 16:39

sollenwir · 25/11/2023 16:36

The landlord will still have to follow correct procedures, so contacting them every day isn't realistic.

Realistic or not he will be pissed off enough to accelerate the eviction.

PeterOhanrahahanrahan · 25/11/2023 16:40

CwmYoy · 25/11/2023 16:39

Realistic or not he will be pissed off enough to accelerate the eviction.

Or injunct the OP for vexatious complaints and harassment.

Reugny · 25/11/2023 16:41

CwmYoy · 25/11/2023 16:39

Realistic or not he will be pissed off enough to accelerate the eviction.

It depends if they signed up for 6 months or a year.

Also if they paid in advance - which is likely if they come from abroad - it would mean what remains from that period plus the amount of time to go through Court.

misssunshine4040 · 25/11/2023 16:41

@shatteredmama there is a housing crisis. Not too much choice on the rental market as landlords can be as picky as they like and everything is far too expensive.

They probably didn't have much choice

sollenwir · 25/11/2023 16:44

CwmYoy · 25/11/2023 16:39

Realistic or not he will be pissed off enough to accelerate the eviction.

My point is there are limited actions that can be taken, constant contact won't change court process.

Comedycook · 25/11/2023 16:46

I'd totally report them. As for the housing crisis...well if you emigrate to a country which has a housing crisis, then yes it is tricky.

Kwer · 25/11/2023 16:47

Practical advice…

  1. Ask them to buy some rubber / foam floor mats to absorb the noise. Look up the mats you want them to buy and give them the link.
  2. Ask them to forbid jumping - the little ones will forget and still do it, but the 11 year old should be following instructions by now.
  3. Tell them if there isn’t a significant improvement in noise levels within the week, you’ll have to report them to the police and local council for noise nuisance and also to the landlord for breach of contract. Say that you do understand that children make noise but they seem to be making no effort to keep the noise at a reasonable level, and that is not legal in the UK.
  4. Start planning to move flats. :(
IncompleteSenten · 25/11/2023 16:49

You could contact the landlord and ask them to improve sound proofing because the noise coming through is too much to have to deal with. Maybe they would put good quality underlay and carpets down to muffle it.

JustAMinutePleass · 25/11/2023 16:50

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Abracadabra12345 · 25/11/2023 16:51

LaurieStrode · 25/11/2023 15:05

This is a prime example of people choosing to have more kids than they can support, and then expecting everyone else to deal with the downsides. Just reprehensible.

As she told me this she laughed and her exact words were oh you’ll know when they’ve arrived. Things are going to get very noisy!

Poor things, eh?

GasDrivenNun · 25/11/2023 16:54

WonderLife · 25/11/2023 14:59

All these people hoping to make 4 children homeless in the middle of winter Shock

Maybe the noisy family can move in next to you this winter?

Abracadabra12345 · 25/11/2023 17:00

Maybe they were desperate and it's all they could find.
Surely 4 homeless children is everyone's problem.
Yes it's annoying and I agree they could try and be more considerate but a little compassion would be nice.

I wonder how much compassion you'd be feeling in the OP's situation? The tenant told her she'd lied to the LL and LAUGHED at how noisy it was going to get once her kids moved in, knowing how horrible it would be for the OP. I'm amazed that they moved in a year ago and the OP hasn't reported them long ago

avemariiiiiaaaa · 25/11/2023 17:03

The lying tenant needs to keep control of her kids, her situation is not the OPs problem.

sollenwir · 25/11/2023 17:05

Abracadabra12345 · 25/11/2023 17:00

Maybe they were desperate and it's all they could find.
Surely 4 homeless children is everyone's problem.
Yes it's annoying and I agree they could try and be more considerate but a little compassion would be nice.

I wonder how much compassion you'd be feeling in the OP's situation? The tenant told her she'd lied to the LL and LAUGHED at how noisy it was going to get once her kids moved in, knowing how horrible it would be for the OP. I'm amazed that they moved in a year ago and the OP hasn't reported them long ago

Laughing doesn't mean laughing at the OP, it's perhaps more just a lighthearted view of how noisy they know parenting 4 kids can be.

They shouldn't have lied to the landlord though, and that may be their eventual downfall with regards to this tenancy.

Regardless, this won't change overnight, so OP does have to take on board some of the suggested coping strategies.

shatteredmama · 25/11/2023 17:05

IncompleteSenten · Today 16:49

You could contact the landlord and ask them to improve sound proofing because the noise coming through is too much to have to deal with. Maybe they would put good quality underlay and carpets down to muffle it.

This is good advice as the landlord did soundproof our hall for some reason, but no other area of our flat 🤦‍♀️

I’ll ask him if he would consider soundproofing the bedrooms and living room, and I will tell him the reason why. Thank you, I hadn’t thought of this route.

OP posts:
Zebedee55 · 25/11/2023 17:08

If the rent is being , from wherever, and the place is being looked after, I shouldn't think the landlord will be interested.

It'll be your choice what to do.

Hotchocolate2023 · 25/11/2023 17:10

I can't imagine they had much choice. On the flip side, you chose to live in a GFF flat. You should expect noise.

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