To think that you shouldn’t choose to rent an upstairs 2 bed flat if you have 4 noisy kids

[shatteredmama]

Just after your thoughts. We rent a ground floor flat, we expect to hear some of the usual sounds of upstairs neighbours such as footsteps, doors closing, washing machine, Hoover, the odd thud. Am absolutely fine with that.

A new couple moved into the flat upstairs, normal neighbour noises could be heard. No problem with that. Soon after they told me they had lied to our landlord and that it won’t just be the two of them, their 4 boys from the ages of 2 -11 would be coming over from their home country and living in that flat with them. Theirs is a 2 bedroom flat, no outside space, our flats are converted from 1 house. As she told me this she laughed and her exact words were oh you’ll know when they’ve arrived. Things are going to get very noisy!

Since the kids moved in the noise levels are ridiculous. Constant loud bangs, thuds, shouting, squealing, we can hear them running up and down their flat. It isn’t occasional. It’s all day every day as not all of them attend school.

I know kids make noise. On a couple of occasions I’ve knocked on and as nicely and politely as possible explained how it’s impacting us. For example when my child was crying and couldn’t go to sleep at bedtime because all the kids in the room above were jumping off the sofa onto the floor, our lampshade was swinging from the impact. At other times they’ve all been running and screeching so loud it sounds as though they are actually in our flat with us. The neighbours have then shrugged, argued back and said they’d try to keep the noise down but there’s nothing they can do.

I don’t know what we can do other than move out ourselves, but with the housing crisis the way it is, it wouldn’t be easy. I feel angry that they lied to get the tenancy and moved the family in knowing that it would disturb us and make our lives difficult.

Would any of you say I’m justified in feeling this way, any practical advice you’d give?

Agreed!!

There is nothing about this post that suggests they 'cant afford their DC' are we all meant to live in 4 bed detached houses? Snobby post.

Never ever withhold rent under any circumstances. Any housing lawyer will be most insistent on this. Refusal to pay rent can result in a fast track eviction and sometimes the tenant doesn't even get invited to speak to the court, it can be done on paper.

There are some fairly rare and unusual exceptions where a person can be granted by a magistrate to withhold rent in lieu of money spent by the tenant on urgent repairs - this is almost unheard of and doesn't apply in this case.

Kids will be kids! They’ll grow out of it eventually. I wouldn’t grass someone up for it you don’t know their situation. It’s just a downside of living in a flat.

What about the poverty stricken people who have no choice but to live in downstairs flats? Where is the compassion for those trying to live their lives in already difficult circumstances who aren't selfishly disturbing those around them?

I've plenty of compassion for the OP, I know what it's like to have upstairs neighbours who just don't care about the noise they make. Parties, shouting, slamming doors, kids running round screaming because no one has taught them how to act indoors or can be bothered to take them to the park at the end of the street to let off steam. People who obviously have the money to put in flooring etc and have loud sound systems but don't bother to think of carpet or any sound insulation. It's hell.

Plenty of poor people know how to behave in a reasonable and civilised way, I don't know why some posters don't empathise with these people more than those who are poor but also arseholes.

Ugh, kids will be kids 🙄That's no excuse.

Ring the police to report kids running around?

Why not go the whole hog and call 999?

Would you be saying that if it were you sitting on your sofa trying to relax and watch tv while the light fitting shook because of constant noise from upstairs?

I'm not sure you would.

I only have one noisy child who can't help the noise as he has autism and Tourettes. He makes noises from vocal and physical stims and tics. So if I had to move and could only afford a flat I would try my best to rent a ground floor flat and I would do my best to soundproof too. People don't always have that much of a choice on where they live though, particularly if they are going through council/housing it's rare to be able to be very fussy.

Does sound like this is a choice though and no attempt to mitigate.

For older kids with no disabilities I'd expect a bit more effort to be conscious of neighbours

I'd inform the landlord.

I lived under just one DC and the constant running about nearly did me in. I complained and it got briefly better but started up again. It must be awful with four all the time.

I would complain to the landlord as it is over crowding and it is ruining your right to quiet enjoyment however, from my experience with a landlord they don't care as long as the rent is being paid. Then complain to the council because of overcrowding. Then the LA because maybe some of the children should be in school?

I hope it is resolved.

The neighbours are deliberate duplicitous liars. I'm baffled as to how people try to defend the indefensible.

I look forward to an eviction update.

Kids will be kids is such a cop out!
At least two of the kids are at school where they presumably understand that shouting and leaping off furniture is not allowed inside yet they are not expected to follow the same rules at home.

The fact that the parents lied about the kids to the landlord and then laughed at the OP by telling her she’d know when they arrived is pretty telling about the attitude the neighbours have towards parenting their kids.

If the OP should expect some noise for having the audacity to live in a flat then the upstairs neighbours should expect they can’t let their kids run wild and disturb people to the extent they have done.

Flat living means EVERYONE has to modify their behaviour and show consideration to their neighbours. Having kids is not an exemption card for basic manners.

The housing crisis is as relevant for the OP being able to find somewhere else to live as it is to the nightmare neighbours, yet because they have more children they can’t be arsed to bring to the park to run off steam and make noise, it’s the OP who should move?

This place is truly upside down land when it comes to common sense.

Great post 👏👏👏

And the fact that people on here think the OP should be sympathetic as they have come from another country ! Nah.

I bet the majority of the people on this thread who are accusing the OP of x, y and z and telling her to suck it up and be more empathetic are doing so from a position of privilege in their detached houses or well sound proofed modern flats. It’s not good for anyone’s mental health to live with constant noise and the OP also has a child who deserves the same level of consideration people are showing for the neighbours four children. The fact is the OP has politely told them about the noise on numerous occasions and they’ve made no attempt to get their children to be quieter. Tearing around jumping on and off furniture when you have people living below you is antisocial behaviour whatever country you come from. There are also British people who lack consideration and let their children make unacceptable noise. Both are wrong. Don’t patronise immigrants by assuming that because they’re not from the U.K. they don’t know how to/have any obligation to get their kids to be quieter and more respectful to their neighbours.

The landlord needs to better soundproof the flat and the neighbours need to make an effort to get their children to stop making unacceptable noise. If they want to jump about for hours, there are parks for that.

Tell the landlord. They've broken the tenancy agreement and no way should YOU move

Why all the demand to be sympathetic to the OP when from the title alone she displayed a compete lack of sympathy? Nobody chooses to keep a family in a 2 bed flat. The language we choose matters and her use of the word CHOOSE is very telling.

Look work through the logic on this. OP has complained to the people lots of times so they know OP is annoyed. Suddenly the landlord is poking around in their business? Two plus two equals four, people. They are going to tell the kids to make all sorts of racket or post stuff through the letterbox etc it is so not worth the hassle. I know because I once complained to my neighbours landlord about their baby keeping me up at night and they won't talk to me anymore

@PinotViogner why the demand to be sympathetic to the neighbours who also made clear choices. At the very least to lie and to completely disregard the impact of the noise of the children on the other neighbours.

When you live in close proximity to others you choose to be a considerate neighbour or you choose to not give a shit.

And you’re absolutely right the language we choose matters - the language of the neighbour telling OP she’d know when the kids arrived is her pretty clearly acknowledging her children would be loud and disruptive and she didn’t care.

And as for the repeated assertion that people must excuse selfish and entitled behaviour from immigrants as they don’t know any better, have a word with yourselves about your racism and xenophobia. Us foreign types do actually have a grasp on how to live in community with others, with consideration and empathy, without needing to be excused or educated, thanks.

It's unsettling how people keep bringing up the neighbours nationality/race. Then again this is probably what OP was counting on. There was zero need to even include this information.

Bold to assume the neighbour isn't doing anything to stop the children. How many 2 year olds do you know who do everything muumy says at all time with no pushback? It says so much that people are making this assumption based on nothing.

@Over40Overdating Us foreign types.

as great as it is that you want to be the official spokeperson fro all foreigners I'll politely decline your service. The only reason this is being brought up is because OP for some reason decided it was relevant (it isn't) it's not wrong to question this as I'm sure that like a previous poster said this was deliberate to get people extra riled up.

I've had rubbish neighbours before and can entirely sympathise with OP and I hope things can get sorted out for her but the people on this thread who have brought up OPs questionable attitude and need to bring up their nationality are not wrong to do so. OP gives strong vibes of the same people I've had to deal with since living here and it's more common than you think.

The children are aged 2-11.

Yep that was my point. The 2 year old is hardly at an age where they listen. If they're anything like mine were then they'll have some selective deafness going on. She didn't say the ages of the middle children but if they're also quite young then the point stands.

Even when parents really try, children like to challenge and pushback. What superpowers do people on here think this woman has that she should just click her fingers and have perfectly silent, still children whenever op fancies?

Oh it was definitely a calculated move on the part of the poster to bring up the 'home country' statement. She knew what she doing there.

Have to wonder why she didn't simply say "mum moved in at first and then the rest of the family joined later". There could be a multitude of reasons for this arrangement but she seemed to be banking on mumsnets xenophobic side coming out in full force and she was right.

What a brilliant post! Thank you 👏👏

Not snobby at all. Everyone knows that, lovely as they are, children are THE biggest drain on finances. So if you have four children, one would assume you live in a big enough property - which will obvs be more expensive - to house them. Not an overcrowded two bedroom flat.

So, if this IS all they can afford, it follows that they can't truly 'afford' to support thar number of children. Yes, people's circumstances change but doesn't sound like that's the case in this instance.