Husband left kids alone at home

[OhDamnYourEyes]

I just came back home after a night out with friends, which was arranged a week ago. Husband was going to be home with the kids (8 & 11), put them to bed etc.

Yesterday he asked what time I was likely to be back, as a friend had asked him to go out for a drink. I said that I wasn’t sure, but not until fairly late. As a joke I said ‘you won’t just go out and leave them, will you’ and he laughted and said ‘of course not’.

Fast forward to tonight, I come home at 23:45, kids asleep, he’s not here. When I call him, he’s at his friends house (ca. 15 mins away) for a drink.

We had recently discussed starting to leave them home alone for short periods every now and then, and once went out together to a birthday nearby from 8-10.30pm (we couldn’t get a babysitter and gave them a phone to call us if they needed to). I did however say that I feel they are actually a bit to young for this, and that while I think it’s ok to go to the shops for an hour in the daytime and leave them, I don’t feel comfortable doing so at night.

I had a massive go at him over the phone, told him that he’s irresponsible and that I don’t want to see him. What would you do?

Yup. Please leave OP alone now. She has posted in sincerity because she worried they were getting the balance wrong. I think most of us think they did a bit, especially the second instance. She’s making an effort to find the line in the sand - and it does differ depending on the combination of ages, personalities etc.

Because they are both as bad as each other and have form for leaving very young children home alone. As described in opening post.

What the hell?! It was okay to leave them when it was a party you wanted to go to (although you later, in hindsight thought they were too young... did you though?), but when your husband repeats the same behaviour, you kick off?!

This isn't okay behaviour FROM EITHER OF YOU.

The whole "it's a safe area" is bollocks, and "we were only 5 minutes away." Let me tell you, 5 minutes is a LONG ASS WAY when your house is on fire, or someone has broken in.

This

my kids are same age

I don’t think it’s totally irresponsible what you did before but wouldn’t do it myself. I was left at home a lot as a child but there’s a big difference leaving one responsible child vs leaving one responsible for the other but it depends on the kids, circs etc . Anyway you’ve realised that wasn’t a good idea so that’s good.

anyway your dp was an idiot for going out and not telling you.

You are both unreasonable.

The NSPCC state:

'While every child is different, we wouldn't recommend leaving a child under 12 years old home alone, particularly for longer periods of time.

Children in primary school aged 6-12 are usually too young to walk home from school alone, babysit or cook for themselves without adult supervision.

If you need to leave them home, it's worth considering leaving them at a friend's house.'

We have only just started leaving my oldest for a bits this year and thats during the day with a phone and without his young siblings (who would be with us). Hes 15 (so probably 14 the first time we left him for a bit) and only because hes at that age where he no longer wants to tag along to the soft play and is almost an adult etc...

I can’t believe you left them alone in the previous instance. That’s diabolical.

not telling them was even worse-why did he lie and go out anyway

You do not "need" to get out. I'm a lone parent with no help and never went out until DS was old enough to be alone. I didn't go mad.

Yes. To be fair I can see why OP is annoyed with him. He’s taken her previous “ misjudge,” which I think she already regretted, and not just repeated but amplified it, plus lied to her. That ISN’T condoning leaving an 8 year old, just an explanation of why I can see she is annoyed despite her earlier mistake.

If I knew who you were I’d report the pair of you to social services.

I agree with the PPs. Way too young. Especially for a night time. Others have gone into the awful awful possibilities that could have occurred. Our friends still get a sitter for their 13 and 10 year olds at night. It’s very different if you are out at night, especially if you are drinking.

You know this isn’t ok. You felt uncomfortable the last time so I’m sure it won’t happen again. Show him this thread if he doesn’t get the seriousness of what he’s done. This would really erode my faith and trust in my DH’s ability to parent.

Agree with this. Imagine how scared they'd have been to wake in the night and find neither of their parents home 😞 Not to mention all the other awful possibilities that could have happened, this alone is bad enough.

I'm a pretty relaxed parent in lots of ways and I think this is a bit grim.

Imo what you’ve described is quite different to what OP has.

This can’t be true. Who leaves an 8 and 10 year old at night or at all. Very strange if you do and I too would report you if I knew who you were.

Leaving children when they are awake is totally different from sneaking out when they are asleep. First, children hear nothing. We had a smoke alarm going off just behind their door, they both slept through it happily. And they could get very stressed if they woke up and nobody was there.

I am a bit surprised about the outrage though and that some people wouldn't even leave their teenagers. I checked out of interest the advice in some other European countries. In Germany, it's OK to start from 4yo for up to 30 minutes, and acceptable to leave a 7yo for a couple of hours. https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.ab-wann-kinder-alleine-lassen-mhsd.232be255-faf0-4ada-afc0-9157436bc803.html#:~:text=Ab%20dem%204.,und%20das%20Umfeld%20es%20zulassen.

In Switzerland, 8-9 is considered fine, this article also says that kindergarten-aged kids (4yo) can be left for shorter periods, up to 30 min.
https://www.schweizer-illustrierte.ch/family/alltag/ab-wann-darf-man-kinder-allein-zuhause-lassen
France - 6-7 to consider depending on maturity, as by 9-10 they can be reasonaly expected to be home alone for a few hours, so you need to start practicing. https://www.europe1.fr/societe/a-quel-age-peut-on-laisser-un-enfant-sans-surveillance-3665759
Another French article says not before 7, but by 10-11 they can also be left in charge of younger siblings. https://www.magicmaman.com/,quand-peut-il-rester-seul-a-la-maison,379,137.asp

A Swedish article here says that from 6-7, a few hours after school is fine.
https://loppi.se/vad-sager-lagen-om-att-lamna-barn-ensam-hemma/

All those people would have SS called on them in the UK, wouldn't they?

Similar here. I was frequently left with my 2 siblings on the evenings too, our ages ranging from 7-11 ish at the time (I was the middle one). We used to play silly games and run riot, but I still recall feeling scared every time there was knock on the door and no adult was around. It's not a pleasant feeling and I still recall now.

My DH still freaks out when I leave our 11 year old (year 7) to go to tesco (which is a 2 minute drive away) to get milk during the day.

You know, my parents did this, didn’t say anything, myself and my brother (the same ages) went to bed as normal.

I woke up, no sign of my parents, car gone. No mobile phones in that day. I was absolutely petrified. I remember waking my brother (I was the 11 year old) and crying, he was no help being younger.

I remember looking out of the bedroom window desperately praying for the car lights to come up the road. Eventually, way gone midnight they came home. Back then it was ok to drink and drive.

I STILL remember the fear I felt 40 years later - it affected me so much that even when I got older and they told me they were going out I’d feel sick with fear.

I started waking up afraid even when they hadn’t gone out - I became so afraid of not knowing if they’d be there when I got home it became a huge problem for me.

Maybe sounds stupid but it affected me for years.

Please don’t do this.

Utterly irresponsible and selfish.

And I say that as someone who leaves my 8 and 10 year old for short periods (up to half an hour, in the daytime and I'll only pop to the supermarket less than 3 minutes walk away)

What if one of the kids had woken? I mean I know realistically nothing bad would have happened but the kids wouldn't have known where you were or how to contact you (unless the 11yo has a phone but the onus shouldn't be on them to have to find a parent)

Jesus Christ. I’m as casual as they come and even I think you two are shit-for-brains parents.

Eight?! With an 11 year old in charge? While you both get pissed? Really?

I was baffled to see the outrage too! I'm from Finland and at 8yo was responsible for getting myself home from school (2km walk), fixing myself a snack and taking our dogs for a quick stroll around the block while I waited for my parents to get home from work. Kids the age in the OP should be fine for a short period in the daytime, and the older one should not be made to feel fully responsible for the younger.

I wasn't left in the evening though (for dinner or if my parents went to the cinema or theatre etc) until I was a 14-15 and overnight not before I was 17.

You both sound like idiots to be fair!